Cracked Block: Whose Responsibility??

[crazyal]

How many shops in your area provide free magnafluxing?
But then a complete magnafluxing of a 4 cylinder engine block that takes only 15 minutes probably should be free.............

Around here you don't get the option, it's included in the bill. The only way to not have it done is by agreeing to take full responsibility and pay up front. A good portion of the parts brought to machine shops are from engines that had a mechanical failure of some sort or from a salvage yard with an unknown history of the part. After all a salvage yard would rather sell an engine whole if it runs. A lot of the time if someone has a block they want worked on they buy the parts needed, pistons, rings, bearings, etc from the machine shop. That usually means a shop has a lot of time and money into an engine. Some people would just walk away leaving the shop on the hook. Even if they took a 50% deposit they are still going to be out money once you include the labor and shop costs.

When inspecting a block or head there's only a limited number of places you can test. The rough surfaces of castings are extremely hard to check and are unlikely to be cracked. So you would focus on places like the cylinder walls and the mating surface to the head. I preferred to use fluorescent particles using a UV light to detect cracks when working indoors. Any crack shows up like a neon sign. If you were doing testing for a part, say a valve going in a nuke plant, then there's lots of rules you need to follow. However if the purpose of your testing is just simple go/ no go testing where you are looking for a crack on the surface then it's a very simple process.

 

[2458n]

Friend just redid a 1650 Oliver. Old guy doing the work knows these tractors, but it was something new every couple of days. When your half way through and things are still needed to do it right what do you do?I KNOW WHAT THIS TRACTOR CST HIM. The 500.00 seems cheap at this point. At least you know what you have when your done. You may not live long enough to make the repair economical.

 

[crazyal]

Exactly, but you wouldn't be able to tell by many of the posts here. Too many here start with the assumption that they are getting screwed to the point that the shop would never be able to satisfy them in my opinion. I've been a professional mechanic for 27 years. Sometimes stuff happens.

I just did some routine maintenance on a Bobcat 763 on Wednesday, I got a call yesterday that it stopped moving. Unfortunately it broke a drive chain and it was getting jammed between the case and sprocket locking the machine up. That had nothing to do with the oil change and neutral adjustment that I did. It was merely coincidental. Lucky my customer understands that. I don't know that I would fare as well in this crowd.

Brian

This is my point. A lot of people understand but it only takes one. If your customer felt it was your fault and decided not to pay your bill then you're out your labor, the oil(s) and filter(s), and if done on site your fuel and mileage. If you now have to take this person to court to get paid you're now have to take your time to jump through the hoops that could instead of doing work for someone else. On top of that you now have somebody running around town most likely bad mouthing you maybe even twisting the story a little for effect.

 

[brain55]

It is not economical to disassemble a machine to check every little part on an oil change. My experience is that a customer that would bad mouth a vendor for something like this, has already made himself known for that, and his word is taken with a grain of salt. It is another reason I prefer business to business vs. homeowners.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

It seems the shop is trying to do the right thing here. Stuff happens that is out of any ones control. My general rule of thumb is that if it was running fine when it was disassembled with no signs of problems it doesn't get magnafluxed.It gets a good visual check..If you see something that looks suspicious you check it . If the engine broke a rod or spun a bearing then it is a different story.Cracks are not always easy to find even with dye penetrate or iron particle.Some won't show up until an engine is warm. People don't realize the amount of time involved in crack checking. The part has to be cleaned and dried, checked for cracks then cleaned and dried again.This all adds up to dollars.On a block there are places that you just can not check with conventional methods. People need to realize that when they have an engine rebuilt they don't have a new engine.They have an old engine that has been refreshed.
Bill

 

[yelbike]

It seems the shop is trying to do the right thing here. Stuff happens that is out of any ones control. My general rule of thumb is that if it was running fine when it was disassembled with no signs of problems it doesn't get magnafluxed.It gets a good visual check..If you see something that looks suspicious you check it . If the engine broke a rod or spun a bearing then it is a different story.Cracks are not always easy to find even with dye penetrate or iron particle.Some won't show up until an engine is warm. People don't realize the amount of time involved in crack checking. The part has to be cleaned and dried, checked for cracks then cleaned and dried again.This all adds up to dollars.On a block there are places that you just can not check with conventional methods. People need to realize that when they have an engine rebuilt they don't have a new engine.They have an old engine that has been refreshed.
Bill

So very true.

I would just justify the extra $500 as an extra. What if they had torn the engine down, and actually found the crack? You still have to pay the money, or stop the rebuild. I don't think they are pulling a fast one over on you buddy. It sucks but pay up and move on.

 

[Ed of all trades]

The big question is did the dealer pull the engine down and see two cracks or did the dealer see water in two spark plug holes and say there are two cracks? if so it could be the sleeves were installed wrong and the dealer is looking to cover the cost of a repair. It has ben done.:2cents:

 

[94BULLITT]

I would not spend that kind of money on a engine with out having it magnfluxed.

 

[jinman]

I'm writing on behalf of a good friend. Took his 1948 8N to a dealer for a motor overhaul. It was reportedly ready to be picked up about 10 days ago and as he planned to go get it he later got a call from the dealership saying it wouldn't start and they needed to see why. About a week later he received a call from the dealer saying that they determined the block was cracked in two places. Now the tractor was taken to the dealer with no indicators of a cracked block. The owner had checked the oil within a couple days of taking it, hadn't been using it due to lack of growth of the grass here in Texas (all it he has ever used it for) and feels pretty sure that there was no indication of any cracks when delivered to the dealer. His thought is that perhaps it is possible that the block was cracked during installation of the cylinder sleeves. Not being a mechanic myself, nor is he, I would like some feedback from some of the brother's as to the likelihood of this happening or whatever other ideas anyone has. Thanks for reading.

There are just too many variables for anybody here to make a suggestion as to whose fault this might be or if there is any fault to be assigned at all. The tractor obviously needed overhaul or your friend would not have put it into the shop in the first place. He says he "thinks" there were no cracks. It might be something as simple as a block sealant had been in the tractor and was sealing the cracks before the block was disturbed during repair. There are just way, way too many variables to say there were no cracks and/or the dealer caused the cracks.

I think your friend needs to go have a sit-down face-to-face meeting with the service manager. The manager needs to explain what he did and how it was done. He also should describe how they determined the leaks. That discussion should include any questions of if it is possible the tech performing the overhaul was a fault. Essentially what I'm saying is it is not proper for us to "guess" at what happened when the people most involved need to discuss this like two adults. Both the owner and the service manager need to answer each other's questions as honestly as possible. That's the only true resolution to the problem. As RickB said, this is not good for either party. Both dealer and customer are going to come away wishing this could have been different.

There are a lot of 8Ns out there that have been left to freeze with no anti-freeze. My father's old TO-20 Ferguson had a cracked block and was repaired at least twice in it's lifetime. However, just because it can happen does not mean that it did. That's the same with the overhaul at the dealership. Your friend and the dealer need to figure out what they are going to do. That's something they can both control. The cracks are now there and neither of them may be able to determine what happened. It is what it is. . . :confused3: