Cracking hoods on 2500 series

[Sailmariner]

I have a GT 2542 and it is just about a year old. Its third hood has now cracked off. It has about 51.7 total hours.

Within a very short while after we got it (less than 20 hours), the hood fell off. The hood is held on by four bolts that go into four brass threaded inserts, which are molded into plastic towers in the hood molding. These plastic towers crack and the hood falls off.

The first time it happened, I looked at the broken hood and I said, "There is not enough plastic in those towers to give a firm anchor for those brass inserts."

The dealer said (of course) that they hadn't seen anything like this, and they checked with the factory and the factory said they thought it was a mere mistake where somebody at the factory had over-torqued the bolts. I said, "No, I don't think so. There's not enough plastic to anchor these inserts."

I insisted on being able to talk to a factory rep, and they got me in touch with one. He repeated the statements about over-torquing and I told him the same thing, there's not enough plastic there.

Well, they gave me a new hood, but I was without my tractor for about 10 days, when it should only take a few minutes to change the hood.

With the second hood, we opened it only to change or check the oil, and always handled it with kid gloves. In January 08, this hood cracked and broke, in exactly the same fashion.

Again, the dealer gave me a new hood, but again, I was without my tractor for the better part of two weeks.

On June 11, the third hood broke off. We had treated this hood also with kid gloves.

I called the dealer, who got the factory rep to call me. The rep started laying on more crap about the over-torqued bolts, plus the concept that there is an improved brass insert. I told him the bolt and the insert are not the problem. The problem is not enough plastic in the towers of the hood molding.

Each time, what the factory guys do is to tell me that "the engineers" say the hood is fixed now. On the latest conversation, when I said that was not so, the factory guy said, "Are you telling me our engineers are stupid?" I said, "No, but they have made a mistake. Those are two different things. They might be smart, but they have made a mistake."

The dealer is now admitting that they have had other hood failures like this (but not how many there are). When I finally got the dealer to come look at the broken hood, I pointed to the cracked-out towers and said, "There's not enough plastic there." He said to me, "You know, you're right."

So I am now negotiating with him over some kind of trade or other way to get out from under this tractor. As far as I am concerned, as long as the factory is not willing to address the real situation, I can only look forward to an endless chain of broken hoods.

I am going to try to attach a shot each of the second hood, and the third hood. (I didn't think I needed to shoot pictures of the first broken hood.)

Under the basic concepts of the lemon laws that have been passed in a number of states, you arrive at the status of "lemon" when the seller has been given an ample opportunity to fix the problem and either won't, or can't.

I believe this tractor has arrived at lemon status. Coincidentally, it is bright yellow, too.

 

[Fordlords]

If it makes you feel better, I can tell you IMHO that CC engineers are not very smart, at least not smart enough to know how do long enough running tests or know what a proving ground is. If they were, they wouldn't have to keep coming back and doing so many part retrofits and running changes to keep things from falling apart or melting on these tractors. They need to go back and study the old International Harvester designs and understand the wisdom that went in to the things they did back then instead of designing things that seem to be moving backwards as far as quality and longevity. But on the flip side I guess IH and some other good names might have made things too good, which is why they didn't turn enough profit and had to sell out to MTD.

I like that piece of plastic they use in that hood to block the vent, and the little metal clips used to hold it on. Kwality with a capital K

-Fordlords-

 

[JTKub]

Unfortunately, the final approved design is out of the Engineer's control and in the laps of the Company's bean counters. Engineers are told; Design the best that money can buy, as long as it's the cheapest! I see it (deal with it) all the time at work. IMO, regardless of the materials used, the hood design on the 2006+ 1 and 2K series is fraught with danger. Personally, I'd drill holes in it, rig up some quick release pins like a race car and be done with it.

Joel

 

[JSharp]

To combine what Fordlords and JTK said and coming from a design engineer who has to deal with this crap every day -

I suspect the problems we've seen with the later 2500 series tractors were discovered in durability testing but the proper fixes will cost $$ and because of that they've not been implemented.

It's simple. The bean counters look at the projected warranty costs and if it's less than the cost of the re-design projected across a certain number of units then it doesn't get fixed.

Why do you think GM built V6 engines with poorly designed and destined to leak intake manifold gaskets for over a decade? Easy answer - The projected warranty costs were less than the projected production cost increases that would have been incurred had it been fixed in production.

Of course the bean counters don't have a number for loss of customer good will and sales because of a poorly engineered product. Instead they then lean on sales and marketing to find a way to sell more in spite of the known problems.

In just under 100 hours I've had 2 real problems with my 2554 ignoring the high engine temperatures -

1. Melted hood. Clearly something that would have been seen had they done any testing at all in hot weather. "Fixed" on warranty with the addition of a longer front engine heatshield. Which by the way makes the engine run even hotter and will likely reduce it's life.

2. Bolts sheared from center deck spindle. A problem that the dealer said they've seen numerous times. "Fixed" on warranty by using through bolts with nuts instead of bolts that thread into the aluminum spindle housing.

Both items could have easily been addressed at the manufacturing stage for minimal cost. But, they haven't been yet have they?

I'm seriously starting to worry of my Cub is going to be an expensive proposition once the 3 year warranty is gone. At some point it becomes a question of taking the loss and trading it on a different brand hoping it'll be better, or just spending the $$ year in and year out to keep things fixed.

Neither choice is all that great IMO. But, would a green or orange tractor be better? For the $4K I paid for my Cub I can't see it. They looked to be even lighter in construction and no better engineered with less performance and functionality. IOW, this is what you get for $4000.

Today's lesson in manufacturing as now dictated by business school graduates...

 

[micman32]

It is so sad that you buy what you think is a good quality built machine that has to be repaired everytime it is used.
Gone are the days when things "Were Built To Last". I think the norm now is to make something cheap and sell it for top dollar.
Cub would be better off to go back to the metal hood that they used to put on these tractors.

Michael

 

[LBrown59]

Cub would be better off to go back to the metal hood that they used to put on these tractors.

Michael

MY 2005 2554 has the steel hood.
>>>>>>>>>>

 

[LBrown59]

I have a GT 2542 and it is just about a year old. Its third hood has now cracked off. It has about 51.7 total hours.

Within a very short while after we got it (less than 20 hours), the hood fell off. The hood is held on by four bolts that go into four brass threaded inserts, which are molded into plastic towers in the hood molding. These plastic towers crack and the hood falls off.

The first time it happened, I looked at the broken hood and I said, "There is not enough plastic in those towers to give a firm anchor for those brass inserts."

The dealer said (of course) that they hadn't seen anything like this, and they checked with the factory and the factory said they thought it was a mere mistake where somebody at the factory had over-torqued the bolts. I said, "No, I don't think so. There's not enough plastic to anchor these inserts."

I insisted on being able to talk to a factory rep, and they got me in touch with one. He repeated the statements about over-torquing and I told him the same thing, there's not enough plastic there.

Well, they gave me a new hood, but I was without my tractor for about 10 days, when it should only take a few minutes to change the hood.

With the second hood, we opened it only to change or check the oil, and always handled it with kid gloves. In January 08, this hood cracked and broke, in exactly the same fashion.

Again, the dealer gave me a new hood, but again, I was without my tractor for the better part of two weeks.

On June 11, the third hood broke off. We had treated this hood also with kid gloves.

I called the dealer, who got the factory rep to call me. The rep started laying on more crap about the over-torqued bolts, plus the concept that there is an improved brass insert. I told him the bolt and the insert are not the problem. The problem is not enough plastic in the towers of the hood molding.

Each time, what the factory guys do is to tell me that "the engineers" say the hood is fixed now. On the latest conversation, when I said that was not so, the factory guy said, "Are you telling me our engineers are stupid?" I said, "No, but they have made a mistake. Those are two different things. They might be smart, but they have made a mistake."

The dealer is now admitting that they have had other hood failures like this (but not how many there are). When I finally got the dealer to come look at the broken hood, I pointed to the cracked-out towers and said, "There's not enough plastic there." He said to me, "You know, you're right."

So I am now negotiating with him over some kind of trade or other way to get out from under this tractor. As far as I am concerned, as long as the factory is not willing to address the real situation, I can only look forward to an endless chain of broken hoods.

I am going to try to attach a shot each of the second hood, and the third hood. (I didn't think I needed to shoot pictures of the first broken hood.)

Under the basic concepts of the lemon laws that have been passed in a number of states, you arrive at the status of "lemon" when the seller has been given an ample opportunity to fix the problem and either won't, or can't.

I believe this tractor has arrived at lemon status. Coincidentally, it is bright yellow, too.

The simple soultion would have been to install a 2005 steel hood.

 

[Altair 4]

Can a 2005 steel hood be retrofitted to the later model years?

 

[vtcress]

My GT2542 from 06 suffered a similar latch problem where two of the bolts kept falling out which allowed the hood to change position and then the exhaust burned a larger hole in the hood. Solved it by simply drilling the holes through and then using long bolts with cap nuts. Been good for a year now.
charlie

 

[JTKub]

Can a 2005 steel hood be retrofitted to the later model years?

No, the dash, cowling, attachment points and exhaust are much different on the 2006+ 2K series.

Charlie, great idea on the through-bolt setup. That's the way to do it IMO.

Joel