Creating a Lake

   / Creating a Lake #1,171  
eddie, re: the to be built bridge over your overflow, there was a thread on tbn, i can't remember how long ago, but a bunch of TX tbn'ers got together and built it. if i remember correctly, it was rocked up the sides and had a large rock that was cut into the shape of TX. i know you won't want the same bridge, but there were a lot of good tips on the building of it, and i believe pics and video as well. somebody else might remember the thread and build better than i do and might be able to direct you to the thread. congrats on your lake it's most excellent.

edit: found the thread and here's a pic of the finished bridge.

38293d1115526819-bridge-atv-646699-bridgechainsouth2.jpg
 
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   / Creating a Lake #1,172  
EddieWalker said:
I also want it to be so nicely done that people will take pictures of it. I can build an simple bridge fairly easily, but I really want it to be something that on it's own, will be an attraction. Eddie


Eddie,

The campground I have my RV at has a lot of nice rock work and attractive bridge made from river rock. I will be up there this weekend and if I can remember to take the camera I take a few pictures a post them next week.

I'll also take a few of there pond and culverts.

David
 
   / Creating a Lake #1,174  
patrick_g said:
I have a contract with NRCS and the local NRCS pond expert came out and designed another two ponds for me. He and I have staked the one dam site and the dozer is pared at my place waiting for the operator. The pond will be built on a cost share basis with them paying a portion. I also have a cross fence scheduled in the cost share program as well as some gully smoothing and brush removal.

In their cost share program you do have to build to their specs which runs the cost up but makes for good results. There are certain restrictions of course and they don't just arbitrarily jump in with $ for any project without a sound basis within their charter.

Pat


So the NRCS is helping out there? My business partner's wife used to work for the NRCS out in OK. She was under the impression that they would no longer fund pond projects due to all the resources wasted on ponds that won't hold water and the maintenance. :confused: Hmmmm.... Out here they only seem willing to put in watering tanks fed by city water. That would be awesome if they'd help with that. Although, they might think a 12 acre lake would be a bit overkill for providing water for my cattle. :D My papaw always told me you can never have a pond too big. Although if you put your neighbor's house under water that might be the exception to that rule. :eek:
 
   / Creating a Lake #1,175  
3RRL said:
Spiv,
....but what a fund project it will be.
lol ... Was that a Freudian slip? Hahaha


Yeah, no kidding. :( I don't really know how much that dozer time is going to cost me, and don't really want to think about it. That's why I'm hoping I can do a ton of prep work myself - besides the fun aspect, I'm a real tight wad with money (except where toys are concerned!)
 
   / Creating a Lake #1,176  
Cacinok,

Just a hint...

Take a look at the rest of the photos in that thread. Look for the muscular looking guy with a hair shortage...

:rolleyes:
 
   / Creating a Lake
  • Thread Starter
#1,177  
Spiveyman,

Thanks for the pictures. They really help show what you have to work with and how cool a lake you will have when you build it. With that much area to work with, you won't have any problems getting dirt to buidl the dam. Just push it up from the bottom.

What you need to think about is the size of the dam, not so much the size of the lake. A guy with a big dozer with a straight blade can move an incredible amount of dirt in a day. My dozer is 169 hp and has an 8 way blade. It's the wrong type of blade for moving lots of dirt, as it's rated for three yards. A similar sized dozer with a straigt blade can move five yards easily. Go up in size to a D7 and your moving 7 yards at a time. Those extra yards of materail really make a HUGE difference in time, and time is money.

In a perfect world, I'd much rather have your layout for a lake then what I had tot deal with. I love a lake that has fingers, points and a more random shape.


Grrr,

Thank you. It was overwhelming at first, but the more I got done on it, the easier it got. Probably the most daunting task was just clearing the trees to see what I had to work with. Until they were cleared, it was allot of gueswork and positive hoping. hahaha


Cacinok,

That bridge is over a creek at TXDon's place. It's how the very first TBN get together started. He and Harvey thought it would be fun to do a project togeher, and then they invited everyone to Harvey's place to help build it. Later, after it was all done and Don had it installed, he invited eveyone out to check it out and hang out at his place.

The pictures don't realy do it justice as you can't see all the little details that went into it. It's more a piece of artwork then anything else. When people come to visit Don, he brings them down to the bridge to see how cool it is!!! What's really funny, is it's at the very back part of his ranch and is such a remote area, you'd never know it existed until you are just about next to it.

When we were at Harvey's, he had us all sign the state of Texas on the side of the bridge. Then he cut out our names with his plasma cutter. You'll have to read through the thread, but in one of the pictures you'll see my name on it.

My bridge won't be as fancy as Don's in some respects, but in others, I think more so. It will be a flat, wood bridge built like anybodies back yard wooden deck, but with a very detailed, custom railing that will set it apart.

Any chance you're able to make it here October 27th for the get together? I have a link at the bottom of my post that talks about it, but on that date, there will be a bunch of TBN'ers and their families coming out here to hang out, eat lots of food and share stories. I have 68 acres to explore with trials for ATV's, UTV's or just a nice hike. The small pond is full of catfish and bluegill for fishing and of course, Lake Marabou is looking amazing all by herself!!!


David,

I'd really appreciate any pics you post on bridges and culverts. I have a few ideas, but until I actually build it, I'm open to everything. I love rock, wood and steel. If I can combine those three materials properly, I'll have a beautiful bridge!!!

My thought on the rock is to use cultured stone to wrap the footings that will support the wood beams. Most of it will be underwater, but witht the rise and fall of the water level, the rock will always look nice.


Rob,

I never noticed it before, but Funds and Fun sure have allot in common!!!!


Defective,

That's not a hair shortage. It's a lack of insulation!!!!! hahaha

Eddie
 
   / Creating a Lake #1,178  
EddieWalker said:
Thanks for the pictures. They really help show what you have to work with and how cool a lake you will have when you build it. With that much area to work with, you won't have any problems getting dirt to buidl the dam. Just push it up from the bottom.

What you need to think about is the size of the dam, not so much the size of the lake. A guy with a big dozer with a straight blade can move an incredible amount of dirt in a day. My dozer is 169 hp and has an 8 way blade. It's the wrong type of blade for moving lots of dirt, as it's rated for three yards. A similar sized dozer with a straigt blade can move five yards easily. Go up in size to a D7 and your moving 7 yards at a time. Those extra yards of materail really make a HUGE difference in time, and time is money.

In a perfect world, I'd much rather have your layout for a lake then what I had tot deal with. I love a lake that has fingers, points and a more random shape.


Thanks for the tips on the Dozer work. I don't know how many dozer guys I'm going to have available to choose from, but it sounds like that would be a good quesiton to ask - what's the dozer rated for in terms of yards of dirt? Is there a better way to ask that?

I'm very excited about the possibilities on the back of our farm. We run the cattle up front, but I wanted to leave that back section for rec purposes - ATV trails, horse trails, camping, shooting, fishing, and also pull hay for the cattle. I'll tell you though, here's my real motivation for putting in that lake. This is my little girl, 3 years old with her first blue gill last weekend! :) That's my papaw's pond just down the road from our farm.

08-18-07 Kendra Fishing 004.jpg
 
   / Creating a Lake #1,179  
Spiveyman said:
Thanks for the tips on the Dozer work. I don't know how many dozer guys I'm going to have available to choose from, but it sounds like that would be a good quesiton to ask - what's the dozer rated for in terms of yards of dirt? Is there a better way to ask that?

I'm very excited about the possibilities on the back of our farm. We run the cattle up front, but I wanted to leave that back section for rec purposes - ATV trails, horse trails, camping, shooting, fishing, and also pull hay for the cattle. I'll tell you though, here's my real motivation for putting in that lake. This is my little girl, 3 years old with her first blue gill last weekend! :) That's my papaw's pond just down the road from our farm.

View attachment 84823

Spiveyman,
That is the best motivation God ever gave man. She's a cutie. Does she have you wrapped around her finger? ;)
hugs, Brandi
 
   / Creating a Lake
  • Thread Starter
#1,180  
Spiveyman,

Beautiful picture!!!! She's a cutey.

I can relate to your motivation, as mine is very similar. I like to build things and work on the land, but for me, the real pleasure is in making Steph and the kids happy. By nature, I'm lazy and tend to procrastinate. If it wasn't for them, nothing would get done and I'd spend all my free time relaxing and getting fat.

Getting into the world of hireing dozers is about as tricky as they come. It's one of those trades thats ripe with thieves, liers and outright crooks. In no other area have I seen so many problems as hiring a guy to move dirt.

A few things to consider before hiring anybody.

Get multiple bids and be sure you are comparing apples to apples. Pricing is either gonna be hourly, or for the job. Both have there disadvantages. Hourly can drag it on forever and keep running up a bill. Bidding the entire job doesn't gurantee that it will get done for that price, but it might mean that corners are cut to get it done and get out of there.

I prefer hourly myself as I can keep an eye on what's happening and see right off if I'm being taken advantage of. For smaller projects when I hire somebody, it's usualy the price for the job, but that's just the way it is in home construction.

Then be sure you agree up front to what hours you are paying for. It's very common to charge hours for down time, maintenance time and repairs. You don't want to pay for this. Also be sure they are honest in their hours. I've had problems with guys starting at one time, but billing for an earlier time, or just saying they worked 8 hours that day and it wasn't even close to that.

Rates vary all over the place, but here, you can hire a small, 80hp tractor and operator for around $80 an hour. This is way too small for what you want to do, but just a starting point. A D6 sized dozer will run in the low $100's an hour and probably charge a delivery fee of $200 to $400. A bigger dozer, like a D8 is about the same to deliver as a D6, but will run another $40 to $50 an hour to hire.

The huge difference is that the D8 will move twice as much dirt as the D6. You pay a little more per hour, but you get twice the work out of it. Sometimes it's more like three times the work depending on machines and blades.

Be upfront with everyone you talk to. How much dirt is the dozer rated for? What size machine and how old is it? Older machines still work fine, but they tend to break down more often and it might take months to get it fixed. You don't want a dozer sitting around for months on your land with nothing getting done!!!

Track loaders and dump trucks will move dirt over greated distance faster and cheaper then a dozer, but I don't think that's what you need in your area. A belly scraper is the fastest way to move dirt, but again, you need to be moving it over some distance to be effective.

If you talk to a guy who has all these tools, he's probably gonna be able to go in and get it done really fast. In this case, a bid price is the way to go.

Also make sure you know how much dirt you will be moving. Measure it out, do the math and go into this with as much info as you can. If it's a hundred thousand yards, you need to know that beforehand so you can compare the bid price with an hourly rate.

Some guys will also charge by the yard. This complicates things since there is so much gray area when figuring yards to build a dam. The bigger the dam, the stronger it is, but also the nicer looking it is. This is more money to move more dirt, so you have to know where to draw the line.

When you figure it all out and what it will cost, you might consider buying a large dozer. I paid $25,000 for my dozer and have another ten grand into it with a new engine and hydralic pump. I can't even guess right now what I have into it in fuel and oil, but it's probably close to another seven grand. So I have either $40,000 plus into my lake, or when I sell my dozer, I have what's left over after deducting the sales price. Of course, I've also put a couple thousand hours on the dozer using it on other things and will be using it for anoher few thousand hours at least. To build a pond, the general rule of thumb that I came across was $5,000 to $8,000 per acre of water. My situation was different since my dam is over 900 feet long and that price was closer to twice as much. I built my dam three times thicker then it needed to be, so that would have increased the price allot more too. My guess is that if I'd hired it out, I would have spent $60,000 to have it done, maybe more. I couldn't afford that. I really couldn't afford what I have into it, but somehow, it all worked out.

Eddie
 

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