Crimp specs. whats the tolerance?

[JL Sargent]

I cannot find it now but I thought I read here in the Hyd. forum that the crimp spec. for hydraulic hose is +-10thou. I just crimped my first one:
Used a Weatherhead T450-1 crimper, 3/8 collet, homemade "black" press spacer
3/8 100R2AT hose (ref. Weatherhead 425). It crimped at .802" with my setup. Nominal is .795 according to crimp chart. If +-10 thou is good I suspect thats an acceptable crimp. What do you think?

Edit: I just pushed on it a little harder and its sitting at .798" with my micrometer. Think I'll leave it at that.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Home made spacer? You are walking on thin ice. I don't mean to be a jerk, but until you choose to do this the correct way, I will not even reply to any questions. Please understand, this is for your safety and for the safety of anyone that may come within 20' of a hose you crimp.

 

[JL Sargent]

Andy, my homemade spacer is dead on dimensionally to the thousandth. I believe my crimp is well within tolerance. If it were not you would have pointed it out I'm quite sure.

Makes me wonder. Do you understand what you are doing with the crimper mechanically? If you did then you would know that if my spacer was less than "right" it would show itself when measuring the finished product.

Safety? Sorry, my spacer just as safe as any other.

Thanks for the help.

Knowing is not enough, you must apply.
Willing is not enough, you must do.

How ironic.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Maybe show a pic of your spacer and setup so that we can all see what you are doing. A lot of laymen here.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

And what is the metallurgic composition of your spacer, and of the Weatherhead unit? I thought so. Shall I go on? Okay, why did the crimp diameter change when you crimped it again? These press rings are a very common item. To choose this piece to save money is in my opinion foolish at best. Do I understand what I am doing with the crimper mechanically? Please.
Look, I am not going to get into a battle of wits here with the unarmed.

 

[JL Sargent]

Made mine out of A36, the yield being 36K psi, tensile like 70K. figured that would be fine. What would you have recommended? As for what Weatherhead made the press out of....hmmm Im guessing 4140 but don't really know. 1045 CR would probably work. Of course all I made was a spacer. Not real technical but it did have a recess in it.

Why did my crimp dia. change. Because even with a stop you can either touch it or sit down on it. Try it, you'll see. Wow, I moved it a whole 4 thou. I bet you can get more movement than that out of yours.

Why be on such a high horse? No I haven't worked on a diary farm, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so Im plenty "armed" as you put it. I made a spacer, it works great, get over it.

Thanks for you help with though, really.

 

[Kernopelli]

Tonight on UFHC (Ultimate Fighting Hydraulics Championship) we have our current Champ Andy and newcomer JL Sargent.
Gentlemen.... LET'S GET IT ON!!

Sorry Andy, I couldn't resist. I'd let Sargent figure things out on his own... In the immortal words of Barbera Billingsley in the movie "Airplane!" ,
"Cut me som' slac' jak! Chump don wan no help, chump don git no help. Jive *** dude don got no brains anyhow".

 

[ScottAR]

A coworker broke a spacer at work once. He was VERY lucky not to be injured.
There's a lot of force at work here. Wrong spacer for the hose size. The notched ones are not rated for anything over 1/2" on gates crimping machines.

Find out for your machine.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Look, I'm not on my high horse here. I don't claim to be Mr. Knowledge and hope I don't make myself to be. I will help absolutely anyone here and ask absolutely nothing in return, other than that you work safe and at least attempt to do things properly. You sound far more knowledgable in metals than I am. Maybe you even know more than the people that made the Weatherhead spacer. I don't know. My only point being that with the factory spacer, I know everything is right. With the homemade one, I don't have a clue. Maybe your spacer is too soft and it flexed? Did you run the spacer down until it made contact with the press? Or, did you run down to 1kpsi, 3kpsi, or to pump relief? There is a certain set of standards we use to operate these presses and I can tell you with certainty that many people that have them are not crimping properly. I have the evidence in my shop from my competitors to prove so.
I am an authorized Weatherhead distributor. And, as such, can not condone what you are doing. Therefore, until the time that I am certain you have the proper equipment, I can not and will not give any advice other than you obtaining the proper equipment. After you acquire a black spacer, I would be more than willinng to spend an hour on the phone with you, more if need be, and answer any questions you have. I could email you all kinds of literature to help you. All I ever asked is to do the job with the proper equipment. These black spacer rings are almost dime a dozen.

Kernopelli, you are funny!

 

[JL Sargent]

Fair enough. When you told me in the other thread "don't even try to make one" I took that as a challenge and did it. Wasn't about the money. You suggested it couldn't be done and thats just not the case. Thats the reason I made it. I have bought a spacer on Ebay though, just haven't gotten it yet.
I have had a long interest in metallurgy and specifically tool steels. I have forged, tempered and hardened damascus knife blades, hammer heads, punch/die sets, forging dies, chisels, drifts, all kinds of springs. tongs, etc. H13 tool steel is my favorite to work with. I have also built forging hammers, pneumatic hammers, treadle hammers, and the associated dies, etc. I do weld repair on critical tractor trailer applications and have been paid to weld for 27+ years in addition to other things I find myself doing for $$$. Funny thing: I worked at laymens level in the early 80s on the "spacers" for the old MX missle at JC McGahan Inc. Anyway I'd bet Weatherhead made their spacer out of 4140 and almost as good would be S7. I just didn't have a piece 5" in dia. so went with the A36 which is OK but not as good.

What I did on the crimp. My setup has a hand pump. The T450 was sold with a hand pump as an option. Lot more feel with a hand pump. I just touched the stop on my first trail crimp. On the second I actually pumped into some resistance. That difference was 4 thou. as one might expect. Hope that clarifies. The elec. pump ones wont do that from my experience. They just plow right into the stop everytime.

Anyway, now you know something about me. I'm 45 yrs old and my favorite thing to do is learn something. I've lived my whole life learning by either doing or trying to do. Its a curse of sorts I guess. Im making a threaded backplate for a lathe chuck this evening. Yes, I can probably buy one on Ebay but since I have never done one, I'm gonna make it.
Cheers!

PS: Somebody told me how difficult it was to fly collective pitch RC helicopters and that I probably couldn't do it. Now thats been an expensive "yes I can" but after several crashes and hundreds of dollars I'm flyin.