Cub Cadet 3225 hydraulic valve leak

[thunderbirl]

Hi,

I've just brought home a NTM (i.e., new to me!) CC 3225 with 60" mower, 45" thrower, three point hitch and rear 42" tiller.

When I went to pick it up, it was very low on fluid and didn't move well. The fluid was clear. The dealer added two quarts and it moved really well. There was no puddle on the ground where it's sat since October.

I noticed on the way home a few drips in the trailer and again on the floor of the garage - so I tried to find the cause.

(I know nothing of hydraulics, so I may be calling things by the wrong name in this...)

The middle spool valve in the stack of three (the one for the front hydraulic lift) seems to ooze hydraulic fluid out the top where the actuator moves up and down. I'm not sure if it's when the tractor runs or if it's only when there action in the system. The other two valves are dry.

I degreased everything as much as I could and this seems to be the only problem.

I'm guessing that this is a seal problem and have several questions:
Can these be rebuilt?
Can I replace just the center valve?
Who makes this?
Where can I buy (other than the obvious choice!)?
Is this going to be an ongoing problem?

There were a number of other issues with the tractor, most of which were minor - except for the bent and snapped off brake rods! I'll go into detail on those in another post so that it might help others down the road.

Right now, I need help on this valve problem. It would probably go through the winter on a quart or two of fluid, but, if it isn't too bad a fix, I'd like to fix it now while I've got the fenders off. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

Steve MacLeod
near Rochester, NY

 

[GreenQuality]

Hey !Go on cub cadets web site, click on CC parts .type your model it will show a break down of parts you will need. a new seal and o ring

 

[thunderbirl]

I find the part number of the whole valve, #717-3452, but I find nothing about a repair kit or internal seal or o-ring.

Additional help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Steve MacLeod

 

[thunderbirl]

Sorry to reply to myself, but I've just removed the stack of valves (assuming that's the right term) and have learned a bit more.

The piston (spool?) is removed from the bottom by removal of a inner c-clip. As I pull it out, it's stiff until the bottom o-ring comes clear and then it slides out as if the upper o-ring isn't doing much. (Sounds like I've got my culprit!)($.60 for parts vs. $145 for a new valve??)

So, does anyone know the size of the o-rings on the piston (spool) thingy?
Does anyone know how to "size" the o-ring? (I've got a set of calipers.)

Thanks again for any help.

Steve MacLeod

 

[thunderbirl]

There are two o-rings on the spool. Both 11 mm ID, 16 mm OD, 2.5 mm thickness. There is an inner clip ring on the bottom. Replacing the o-rings was easy. The leaking one wasn't cut or broken that I could see, but it wasn't "tight" either. The new one felt a lot better.

My stack of spool valves also had a single o-ring on each hydraulic line (not two like in the parts diagram) and they were 5/16" ID, 7/16" OD, 1/16" thickness. The inlet sides had a small ring, like an extra washer, but I wouldn't call it an o-ring in the normal sense.

Since I was at the dealership today (see thread on transmission rebuild), I spoke to the service guy who said he repairs these control valves this way for units going to auction, but not for customers. Because Cub doesn't proved parts, the dealership can't guarantee the whole thing and they don't want to get burned. Considering the time involved, I fully understand!

Steve MacLeod

 

[gary_g5]

I had this exact same problem with a Cub Cadet 3165 mower. My valve was leaking around the top of the cylinder, and the local dealer wanted me to pay $400 for a new valve and labor. I found the valve (717-3452) on the cubcadet parts site, then googled the part number and found this site. I dismantled the valve and found that indeed the top o-ring was too loose. I couldn't find any metric o-rings in my little town, so I ordered a 5-pack for 99-cents on amazon. It's sold by OringsUSA. You can also order them directly from their site .

Since I had the whole valve removed from the tractor, I also bought and replaced all of the smaller o-rings for the inlet and outlet hoses using o-rings from the dealership. The backup ring is part 721-0492, and the o-ring is 921-3021. They're about $1.50 each. I reassembled everything and there's no leaks! First time in 2 years that it's not dripping hydraulic fluid all over my garage floor. Thanks to thunderbirl for the legwork on finding the right dimensions for the o-ring and for posting his helpful advice here.

 

[thunderbirl]

Glad it went well. As we chatted, you gave me the opportunity to add a bit more detail about the process. These extra bits may help someone - or may help me remember what to do next time!

There are upper and lower O-rings - both the same metric size. You'll want to replace both of them. Just as a precaution, you should be prepared to replace the o-rings that seal the hydraulic line connections to each spool. My stack of three spools had 8 hydraulic connections. I didn't disassemble the stack as I was afraid that doing so might cause the o-rings in the middle to leak. (Let sleeping dogs lie!)

My local dealer told me that Cub doesn't provide the parts, so he can't repair them for customers, but that the does rebuild them this way if the unit is to be sold through an auction (i.e. eBay, etc.). He wasn't helpful in directing me to find the parts. Your dealer might be more helpful. It wouldn't hurt to ask!

The valve itself is about $135, so for the cost of a few o-rings, it's well worth it to try fix it yourself. The hassle is that you need to get at the bottom of the stack of spools and you'll need a set of clip ring pliers to remove the inside clip from the bottom. Don't touch the screw that's there. It sets the up/down equilibrium position on the spool.

Make a note of the direction of the faint arrow embossed into the top of the spool and be sure to reassemble with it pointing in the original direction (toward the front or back of the tractor). If you get this wrong, then up will become down when you are done!

Once you get the stack out (not a lot of fun, but not bad), remove the clip from the bottom of the leaking section and the spool comes out with a gentle tug. Replace the rings, reassemble and you should be OK. I didn't disassemble the stack, so I don't know what goes on between the sections.

I found the O-rings at a local private hardware store - not a big box. Don't do this by eye or feel as it won't work. I found a couple places to order them on-line, but they were expensive.​

 

[Shredsled]

I just wanted to say, wow, I think this forum thread here just saved me a ton of $$$
Actually just motivated me to join the forum here!
I believe I am having the EXACT same problem. My Cub Cadet HDS 3185 was pissing hydro fluid like a race horse, and I took it in to a local Cub Cadet Dealer (Burdick Street Landscape) who turned out to be a complete hack shop with a shady owner and history (completely different story, but they can burn in he!!) and they diagnosed it with just about every other problem they could have come up with.. I ended up having them perform some work, they removed rear transaxle cover, snapped off 2 bolts in case, then just siliconed over everything without removing broken off bolts... then sent me on my way. I got home, plowed some snow, and it proceeded to leak LIKE MAD. So, I tore into it myself, used a ton of brake cleaner to clear away all the dirt and fluid and debris, then put it on jack stands with the seat and fender off. I filled it back up with fluid, then while running I pushed down the forward and back pedals while also holding the brake. I was hoping to increase pressure and reveal the leak that was happening when plowing heavy snow.
Well, it started to come out of the top middle of the control block where the levers attached to! So, I think this is it! How a certified mechanic/dealer couldn't do that to try and diagnose in the first place, I have no idea....




Anyway, I am also rather uneducated when it comes to hydraulic systems, so I may also be confusing some of the terms you are using here when referring to certain parts, but I think I got the jist of it...

I know this thread is old, but by chance do you happen to have any photos of the parts here?


To replace these o-rings, do I need to completely unhook the control "block" from the hydraulic lines? Or is there possibly enough play to move the block away from frame, pop out snap ring clip, drop "spool valve" down from bottom, replace o-rings, then reassemble in opposite order?


Any help, tips, or photos here are MUCH appreciated! Thanks!

 

[thankyouTBN]

i subscribed to TBN in order to be able to say THANK YOU SO MUCH in reply to this thread. i know it's very old but i hope some of the guys are still subscribed. wanted to say thanks to everyone but thanks to Thunderburl in particular, you saved me a LOT of money. it is so intensely satisfying to pay $2.57 at Advance Auto for two simple cheap O rings than be forced to buy the entire valve from Cub Cadet $229.56!
:dance1: