Culligan and Septic

[fenneran]

Hello all,

I know water softners were discussed a couple of weeks ago, and the general consensus was that the waste should not be plumbed into the septic line. We just contracted on getting the system installed and they are coming out next week to put it in. The guy who came out to set up the install (manager of the local franchise) said that they now plumb them into the septic systems. I was shocked (and told him so) because I had always heard that this was a very big no-no because it ruined the septic. He said that used to be the conventional wisdom, but studies had shown that it actually helps the septics by stirring it up when it flushes and the minerals (salt) does not hurt the system at all. I am very skeptical and thought I would check with the brain-trust here to see what you all thought. Again, I know what the conventional wisdom here is, but do any of you actually know what the deal is with this? Do any of you have yours plumbed into the septic (or know of anyone who does) and what the outcome is? Anything you can get me will be good. If I have to postpone the install until I can get comfortable with the plan, so be it.

Thanks in advance. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Humbleto]

fenneran, All my friends here in the Texas hill country have them plumbed into the septic system. I have heard of no problems. I would believe the Culligan guy, water is their business.

 

[ByronBob]

My system was done by my well builder and he has ALL of the backflushing of ALL of the filters going into my SUMP PUMP basin.

NOTHING goes into my septic. Have you ever seen what salt does to concrete. It oxidizes and peels the concrete and weakens it. Now this won't happen overnight or maybe even in 5 years. But it isn't good for it long term.

Do you have a sump pump basin he could run the backflush line to? Or does that go into the septic also?

 

[Humbleto]

One second thought, I wasn't thinking of in the first reply, they are fairly easy to install. You might save a lot of money buying one from LOWES or Home Depot and installing yourself. There is no obligation to buy salt from Culligan or pay for maintenance. They are pretty maintenance free and the salt can be purchased at a lot of places

 

[WhyNot]

I have 2 semi custom system's in my basement one is a softner and the other is a carbon unit. I have them drain into the sump pit because they use more water than you would think to backwash and there is no reason to fill your tank. Have also seen them plumbed so they drain right on the lawn I have been told the salt concentration is not enough to kill the grass

 

[TC18guy]

I've never heard that before. I searched for the other thread but couldn't find it. I've got mine plummed to my septic. My parents have always had their plummed to their septic. They replaced their 1st drainfield after about 15 years.

 

[fenneran]

Thanks for all the responses so far guys. The Culligan guy said it purges about 35-40 gallons at a time.

I do not have a sump pit. I do have a drain in the floor, but the house is about 100 years old and my assumption is that this drain probably just goes into a dry well of some sort under the pad (the water tanks are on a cement pad, but most of the floor in the basement is dirt) If it is just a barrel of rocks under the drain, I can't imagine pumping 40 gallons of water into it at a time without dire consequences.

So it looks like some have had a good experience (or at least not a bad one) with pumping the flush into the septic. If it is true that you could pump it onto the grass, that would tell me that the salinity is not that high...or it would kill the grass. Right?

 

[anojones]

I thing, like most things if life, it's an issue of all things in moderation. We just had a softener put in and I did as much reasearch as a could about draining it into the septic, we don't have a sump and I didn't want to drain it onto the grass. From my reading, the issue of salt water is not as big as an issue as the amount of water itself. If you have a family of five and a septic that's all ready near it's capacity due to number of users and design- then adding a water softner will put it over the edge. However, a couple with a 1000 gallon tank and is serviced at regular intervals shouldn't have any problems. I wouldn't worry too much about adding the water softner as long as you feel your septic has the capacity to take the addition water for recharges. The other thing that concerned me, that drain is a connection to my septic which can back up to my freshwater source- make sure it dumps into a trap or other method of avoiding siphoning from the septic line and that it's drain isn't the lowest, so when a back-up occurs you'll see it in the shower before in your fresh water supply.

Aaron

 

[fenneran]

Thanks anojones, that makes me feel a lot more comfortable.

We had a new septic system put in when we bought the house 10 years ago and have it serviced regularly. There are 6 of us (with two bathrooms). The septic tank is 2,000-2,500 gallons with 7, 100' leech field lines. More than enough (in my layman's opinion /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) Since two of the kids are teenage daughters, I can't imagine adding a little water softner will increase the overall load very much /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[AndyM]

With the thought of what salt does to concrete, and to avoid salt water in my leech fields, my water softener discharge is piped to the ditch along my road. This kills the grass in my ditch and keeps it out of my septic tanks.

 

[GaryQWA]

A septic tank is always as full as it can get. Add a gallon of water and a gallon exits the tank into the leach field. The leach field is supposed to allow the water to percolate down through the ground and drain away from the leach beds at an approved rate.

Septic systems that have not had grease, oils etc. that block this drainage, will not have a problem with the volume of water from even a very large softener, let alone a regular sized residential softener.

Over the last 18 years I've installed many pieces of water treatment equipment that dumps as much as 150 gallons into septic tanks and I've never had anyone say they had problems with that. Now if the septic system is in bad shape are you're having backups or slow draining problems, don't do it AND get the system fixed before it causes contamination of your own well. Or the neighbors' wells. if it hasn't already.

Most softeners will never add more water than say a tub bath or 2-3 showers or loads of laundry done one after the other, etc.. Or when the in-laws show up for a week....

Over the last 20 years there have been at least three sets of research done on this subject. The first 1-2 was responsible for a few of the states that had bans against softener discharge into their septic tanks to remove them. There are very few remaining bans.

Here's what the EPA has to say about the last research. The EPA also did the last research before this one.
http://www.epa.gov/ord/NRMRL/pubs/625r00008/html/fs3.htm

Here's a link to more info on this including how a septic tank system operates.
http://tinyurl.com/63bq7

Gary
Quality Water Associates

 

[srs]

Frank, my 2 cents here. My plumber added a neutralizer and water softener at my house here in MD. Everything is pumped into the septic system. He gave me the option during the backwashing phase to dump onto the lawn but that might kill the grass. Regular maintenance here on the septic. However only two of us here. Let us know.

 

[fenneran]

Gary: Thanks for the link and other info. With your years of experience, that gives me a lot of confidence.
srs: They are coming out tomorrow to install the system. I haven't seen anything in this thread so far that would cause me to change that.

Thanks all, this has been very helpful.

 

[GaryM]

GaryQWA,

Interesting links. I never realized that the backflush water from the softener contained little Sodium, but rather contained the Calcium and Magnesium. But when I think about it, it has to be that way. I have a WaterBoss unit and use Potassium Chloride rather than Sodium Chloride for two reasons. One was to reduce any extra Sodium from our diets, the other was to keep Sodium out of the septic system. Well, at least one odf those reasons is gone now! Any information on the other? I.E., how much Sodium does the softener add to the water? Any appreciable amount?

My plumber doesn't think too much of the WaterBoss, but one of the reasons I picked it was the 18 Gallon backflush.

 

[GaryQWA]

First the WaterBoss. On city water they seem to last maybe 5-6 years, on well waters, less.

Drain water from a filter or softener will kill grass if not due to sodium content, then because of the volume of water if regeneration or backwashing occurs more frequently than every 4+ days.

Most plumbers are great folks, but sad to say most usually don't know much about water treatment or the equipment my industry offers. Most do not know wells or pumps that well either.

The formula to determine the amount of added sodium by ion exchange softening your water is... 7.85 mg/l, roughly a quart, per gpg, grain per gallon, of exchange. I.E. 20 gpg hard water times 7.85 = 157 mg of added sodium if you drink the roughly quart of softened water.

The label on most loaves of white bread shows 150+/- sodium content. An 8 oz glass of skim milk, 530 mg and 560 for the same size V8 juice. So... many folks could drink their quart of softened water and eat one less slice of bread and less than a glass of skim milk or V8 juice and substantially REDUCE their sodium intake...

To substitute potassium chloride for softener salt, in high salt efficiency settings, you must increase the salt dose by up to 30%. Moderate salt efficiency settings require at least 6-12% higher. And it causes up to twice as much and can recrystallize in the salt tank, and that gets rock hard and causes more recrystallization due to the displaced water going up into the 'salt'. A vicious cycle that! And it causes you to have to clean the brine tank... and throw the hard (expensive) stuff away!

Solar crystal salt (sodium chloride) is best and is always the cheapest choice.

Now if they were really serious about their sodium intake, they'd also eat one less chip or other type snack food each evening and really reduce their sodium intake. BTW, a pickle usually has something like 1000 mg of sodium.

Here's some other foods, and don't forget, your unsoftened water has sodium in it too! Check the label or your water company web site or have a simple sodium test done on your raw well water.

Gary
Quality Water Associates