Cutting concrete floor

   / Cutting concrete floor #1  

mark1

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2004
Messages
351
Location
Spencerport,NY
Tractor
Jinma 284,Jd GT235,345,Trac-Vac1080
Ok people I need your help! My old house (built in 1960 or so) has the old cast iron/lead plumbing pipes.From my cellar about 3 feet up they go thru a block wall and under a concrete floor under a kitchen.then to a bigger pipe and out to the septic. Years of power snaking has fineally created a leak. Now I need to cut out about 12 feet of concrete floor to replace the pipe. What's out there to cut the floor. Fortunatly most of the floor is axcessable. but it's all inside the house! And what are they using now for pipe.I believe it is 2"" I think the concrete floor is 4-5" thick
Help
Thanks
 
   / Cutting concrete floor #2  
You could rent a concrete saw for the cuts. It will dusty so you should wear a proper mask.

You can also drill a few holes in the concrete to determine its thickness. Use a masonry drill bit.

I believe Scotty is quite familiar with the procedures involved and he may sign in.:D:D:D

If not able to rent a proper saw an angle grinder with a concrete blade should be able to make partial depth cuts. After that numerous drill holes should allow you to remove the concrete.

It would be nice to have a nice straight smooth saw cut for finishing purposes when you replace the concrete.
 
   / Cutting concrete floor #3  
Concrete saw and either deal with the dust (plastic sheeting and duct tape are your freind), or saturate it with water, and deal with the mud and the runoff.

Nothing clean about this task.

Just kind of got to dig in and get going, it sucks know matter how you go about it.
 
   / Cutting concrete floor #4  
Don't cut it dry. :eek: It does not take a lot of water to minimize the dust.
 
   / Cutting concrete floor #5  
When we had to replace the sewer to to my dads house he cut a hole in the wall and made a bit big enough to run a 4in plastic pipe through. We went 15ft under a concrete porch and past a big tree next the house and came out in a hole we had dug out side. The bit was made like a post hole diger. We had a small 10-1 right angle gear box run by 1/2in drill motor. We could dig about a foot then pull it out and clean the dirt out. It took about a day to build the rig and a day to drill the hole.........Larry
 
   / Cutting concrete floor #6  
Why do you need to cut 12 feet?

I would cut around the pipe that comes through the floor first. I seem to do this a few times a year to either relocate a line or add one. I use a diamond blade in my 7 1/4 inch cicular saw and cut it as deep as it will go. I've never tried adding water to the mess, I just deal with the dust. I used to drill the corners with my hammer drill and chip out the concrete with my air hammer. This worked, but it was time consumeing and allot of work. Now I have a Hitachi SDS Max Rotary Hammer. It is the latest, greatest thing for drilling concrete. I just put in the bit and press the trigger. It just about melts through concrete. It also has the ability to be a small jackhammer that is just amazing at how well it works. If you don't have one, don't ever think you will need one, then rent one for the job.

After the concrete is out of the way, cut the pipe at the elbow and remove it. You will have to dig a pit out side the house to pull the old pipe out and slide the new pipe in, but that's pretty basic. Just be sure to cover the end of the pipe with a cap and tape it into place!!!

I always use Schedule 40 for my drain lines. You said this is a two inch line, so that means it's for a shower or sink drain. Toilets should be on a 3 inch line. Never cut a corner and go with drain pipe, it's thinner, but also weaker.

Only use purple primer and heavy duty clear glue. The others have all proven to fail, and are mostly designed for special applications that don't apply to what you are doing.

Eddie
 
   / Cutting concrete floor #7  
When we had to replace the sewer to to my dads house he cut a hole in the wall and made a bit big enough to run a 4in plastic pipe through. We went 15ft under a concrete porch and past a big tree next the house and came out in a hole we had dug out side. The bit was made like a post hole diger. We had a small 10-1 right angle gear box run by 1/2in drill motor. We could dig about a foot then pull it out and clean the dirt out. It took about a day to build the rig and a day to drill the hole.........Larry

I'd be interested in more details about the rig you came up with. Any pictures? I need to run some lines under a driveway (water & electric) for a new barn and hiring a horizontal boring contractor will probably be $$$.
 
   / Cutting concrete floor #8  
This was done about 45 years ago. The tool looked like a post hole diger that you twist with a T handle. We used pipe to drive the diger just like the post hole diger. The angle drive was a 1928 chevy steering box which would rotate 360 deg. This was built very crude and simple was made of pipe and flat steel that was laying around. most was welded together. For smaller pipe dad would take 1/2 in or 3/4 inch pipe and cap the end of it, then drill something like 1/8 in holes in the end of it. He would hook a garden hose in it and push it through the dirt. I have used this to poke a hole about 10 ft deep with out any problem.....Larry
 
   / Cutting concrete floor #9  
I'd be interested in more details about the rig you came up with. Any pictures? I need to run some lines under a driveway (water & electric) for a new barn and hiring a horizontal boring contractor will probably be $$$.

FrogLick if your soil isn't too rocky you can use a water jet to get under the drive. Basically you glue a jet end onto a stick of PVC, the heads are sold at Home Depot, and a garden hose fitting on the other end of the PVC. Dig a ditch on either side of the drive, turn on the water and push your probe in to cut pull out to wash away the spoils. It is a bit of a mess but it will get you there. One piece of advice, make sure your ditch can drain the water away or you will be up to your knees in muck.

MarkV
 
   / Cutting concrete floor #10  
I've had terrible luck with those black plastic attachments for jetting holes under concrete. It might be me, but I've had them fall off every time I've tried to use them. The glue holds because when they fall off, there is a black layer of plastic on the end of the pipe.

I use the cap method with the small hole drilled into the end. I don't really remember what size bit that I use, but something along 3/8's sounds about right. When I'm done, I cut off the end and use the pipe for what I'm doing and through the end away.

Eddie
 
   / Cutting concrete floor #11  
Based on your description, the pipe goes into the basement, and then out under a slab floor. My guess is that it is 4" cast iron. Is this correct?

A couple of questions.
How many toilets on this drain line?
How straight is the pipe? I take it there is a cleanout in the basement, so if you take it out, is the pipe nice and straight under the concrete floor?

If the line is reasonably straight, and there aren't more than 2 toilets on this piep, I would see if you can push a piece of 3" sch 40 plastic pipe through the inside of the 4" pipe out to the outside of the house. Dig down on the outside, cut a section out of the pipe and transition back to the 4" line. Inside the house, cut the cast iron off flush with the wall, and repipe as necessary to connect to the line. It would be best to take 3" all the way to the toilets, but it isn't really necessary if you use a tapered fitting instead of a straight fitting from 4" down to 3".

It might be best to install low flush toilets as well, but probably not necessary. It would be best to make the transition in a vertical section of pipe or fairly steeply sloped horizontal section if possible.

If that isn't possible, I would run a complete new line before digging up that kitchen floor. That is a major undertaking!

It really isn't that hard to dig a hole large enough to get a new pipe through right under the concrete, assuming that the dirt isn't full of rocks or other debris. Knock a hole in the concrete wall, say 6" diameter or 8"x8" (1/2 block) and start digging horizontally with a tile spade. You can strap longer lengths of wood to the spade as you get deeper and just keep going, bringing the dirt back into the basement.

You can also dig in part way from the outside, maybe 4' so you only have to go 8' or so. I've put dug as far as 14'+ under sidwalks and bushes doing this, and it actually works quite well.

Push the new pipe through, make the connections, seal the hole in the foundation, and your done. Much easier and less mess then tearing up your kitchen floor.
 
   / Cutting concrete floor #12  
FrogLick if your soil isn't too rocky you can use a water jet to get under the drive. Basically you glue a jet end onto a stick of PVC, the heads are sold at Home Depot, and a garden hose fitting on the other end of the PVC. Dig a ditch on either side of the drive, turn on the water and push your probe in to cut pull out to wash away the spoils. It is a bit of a mess but it will get you there. One piece of advice, make sure your ditch can drain the water away or you will be up to your knees in muck.

MarkV

Yes, I've done the water jet under a sidewalk...worked like a charm. If you get a PVC a bit larger that the hose nozzel, just stick the hose in the pvc and keep pushing the hose thing though as it bores. Of course I only had 4 ft or so to go...but the concept is still the same.
 
   / Cutting concrete floor
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Ok guys, thanks for all the ideas..I couldn't wait any longer the cellar was getting pretty wet. Had a local plumber come in, he used a diamond blade, and a BIG jackhammer. made a couple look see holes,found the bad areas and replaced the pipes over to the wall stack before it goes out to the septic. It was only 2 inch cast iron.no toilets are connected to it. Just kitchen sinks and washing machine drains.It's now all 2" PVC with 3 cleanout plugs and a extra somekind of vent. I never expected this kind of service from a plumber, 2 guys were here for over 9 hours took a bunch of dirt/sand and 6 bags of morter and concrete. Only chg.1100.00 + tax..I expected 2K or more. I would of had to rent a concrete cutter and a jackhammer, and make a Zillion trips to Home Depot ..
 

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