Cypress post or pressure treated

[rickyb01]

I had a retaining wall built and had 10" plastic corregated sleeves installed while wall was going up. So the bottom is all sb2 rock and they are 24" deep. I going to put in 6x6 post and put up a railing for protection. What do you guys think will last longer? Cypress post or Treated Pine.

Would you concrete or gravel the post?

Thanks Rick

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I would put tamped stone under the post, for good drainage, then back fill. When the hole in about 2/3's filled, I'd break a bag of premixed concrete in the hole, and let it pull moisture from the soil and "set" itself.

So far where I live, that makes the longest lasting pole.

Setting the pole IN concrete makes the "shortest" lasting hole!

SR

 

[polkwrangler]

I would use a good grade pressure treated pine with gravel on bottom

 

[CADplans]

In Virginia, only "virgin growth" cypress has rot resistance,, really O L D trees.
The regrowth that is now harvested has not been standing long enough to develop rot resistance.

I have had several friends make outdoor furniture out of recently (relative, time-wise) cut cypress.
It rots like pine or spruce,,,

Use pressure treated!! :thumbsup:

 

[Ford850]

In Virginia, only "virgin growth" cypress has rot resistance,, really O L D trees.
The regrowth that is now harvested has not been standing long enough to develop rot resistance.

I have had several friends make outdoor furniture out of recently (relative, time-wise) cut cypress.
It rots like pine or spruce,,,

Use pressure treated!! :thumbsup:

Exactly. I had some Adirondack chairs made from cypress, and they rotted just like untreated white pine. I would use treated posts.

 

[roadhunter]

This is always a good conversation. Putting ravel around a post either makes it drain really well or gives a place for water to collect around the post in the porous structure. Just depends on the situation, soil type, grading, etc..

RR ties seem to hold up really well compared to the newer treatments unless you can get wood with a Penta or QNAP treatment which are superior to what's available at most lumbar yards who use water based treatments.

 

[EddieWalker]

Around here, cypress is too expensive to use for posts, so I don't know how well it will work. Cedar is popular, but it doesn't last as long as a treated post does. I've found that when a treated posts is installed properly it will be there a very long time.

In every post that I've seen that rotted out, it always happens at ground level. The dirt settled, or the concrete was poured below grade, and when it rains, water puddles around the post. I don't think it matters too much if you use dirt or concrete to set the post, as long as you have drainage away from the post. Concrete built up like a cone is always going to be there to shed water, dirt built up tends to wash away over time.

I've read about putting gravel at the base of a post for drainage, but I don't understand how that works. It seems to me that the gravel will hold more water and create a wet area at the bottom of the hole. Why would water drain away from gravel once its in there? I've never seen any evidence that this causes any issues, but I've removed enough posts to know that the bottom of a 50 year old post will still look brand new when the rest of it looks its age.

 

[rickyb01]

The structure of retaining wall will drain the hole the post goes in. I'm going with pressure treated pine and will concrete them. Thanks for the reply's I will have more questions in the future. Ricky

 

[CCWKen]

Be sure to read the labels on whatever you get. "Pressure Treated" no longer means it's rated for ground contact automatically. I bought some PT 2x4s and plywood with the intention of building a gas can locker outside the barn. Basically a large foot locker where the top and front open and elevated off the ground with said 2x4s on end. As I was getting ready to start cutting, I started pulling the staples and labels off the ends. Previously, I just pitched them but they were a different color than they used to be. I looked at one and in bold letters it said; "Not for ground contact". That was a bummer.

Apparently, there's now different classes of pressure treated lumber. IIRC, it's a number scale and only the high number is rated for ground contact. I'll have to re-educate myself before heading back to get "ground contact" lumber. :ashamed:

I suspect our Govment had a lot to do with this in an effort to protect us.

 

[Gary Fowler]

The clayey soils where I have experience with fence post holds water forever in a hole. The best solution to that is to encapsulate the post completely in concrete and build up a cone of concrete at the top of the ground level so that at least 2" of concrete is above the ground. I start by putting in at least 3" of dry mix concrete in the bottom of the hole then set the post on top then fill the hole with dry mix and water it in a bit on top. The ground moisture is enough to fully hydrate any that isn't watered. I dug up some post that had been it the ground 20 years, used a sledge hammer to break off the concrete and the post looked new in the concreted portion. I used the same post to rebuild the fence that had been blown over and misaligned from a hurricane.

 

[EddieWalker]

Be sure to read the labels on whatever you get. "Pressure Treated" no longer means it's rated for ground contact automatically. I bought some PT 2x4s and plywood with the intention of building a gas can locker outside the barn. Basically a large foot locker where the top and front open and elevated off the ground with said 2x4s on end. As I was getting ready to start cutting, I started pulling the staples and labels off the ends. Previously, I just pitched them but they were a different color than they used to be. I looked at one and in bold letters it said; "Not for ground contact". That was a bummer.

Apparently, there's now different classes of pressure treated lumber. IIRC, it's a number scale and only the high number is rated for ground contact. I'll have to re-educate myself before heading back to get "ground contact" lumber. :ashamed:

I suspect our Govment had a lot to do with this in an effort to protect us.

All the posts, 4x4 and bigger are rated for ground contact. I've never seen 1x or 2x lumber that was rated for ground contact at any of the stores I go to, but have heard you can special order it. For posts that go into lakes, there is another rating that is needed that is a higher concentrate then ground contact. The ones I've seen are all round posts. While the government did mess up the chemicals used to treat the wood, the ratings have always been there. I feel the use of zinc requires so much more water in the wood, that it's why there is so much shrinkage and warping then before. Used to be a 4x6 was always gonna remain straight, now I see them bending as bad as 4x4's and the 6x6s are iffy. I've had 12 foot long 2x6's shrink as much as 3/4 of an inch shorter in a year after installing them on a deck. Now I have to tell clients to expect this when I'm giving them a bid and tell them that I'll come back and replace the wood for them, or fill the gaps with bondo and sand it all down. This is in addition to the job and there is no guarantee that the replacement lumber wont shrink in a years time.

 

[rd_macgregor]

It is too bad Osage Orange doesn't very often have a growth form suited to making posts; I understand it is one of the most rot-resistant woods around (ie, 30- to 50-year in-ground lifespan of a post).

 

[Sawyer Rob]

When it comes to PT lumber spec., .40 is normally flat lumber, .60 is in ground, like 4x4's ect... .80 spec. is for marine use, or docks ect...

That same spec. has always been used, and generally there's a tag on the end of the piece, with the spec. number on it.

IF "I" am the one building a post building, it's getting .60 spec. lumber not .40....

SR

 

[roadhunter]

There is a reason pressure treated line posts are $4 or $5 each and the same post in QNAP, Penta, or Creosote is around $10 or more.

Water based pressure treatment that you find at the lumber yard is simply not as good. We have all 3 types of treatment plants here (but no creosote) and it's really interesting looking at the differences. For example the QNAP plant requires steel banding on bunks because that is a high temperature process as opposed to the water based pressure treatment which is not so plastic banding can be used. The railroad uses all QNAP treatment timbers for bridges and such. The Plant that used penta primarily does telephone poles.

If you are looking for superior durability try something other than the standard pressure treatment. The ranchers around here are really picky and prefer the QNAP to just about everything.

 

[/pine]

Bald Cypress is susceptible to subterranean termites...so any ground contact is not recommended...however (bald) cypress when used for siding (lap, board and batted etc...) it will last for virtually ever...even unpainted etc...if left natural it will develop a natural grey patina that is very desirable for a rustic appearance...

 

[rickyb01]

Just called a company here is Arkansas that still offers true CCA .60 5x5 treated post. I was going with 6x6's but they only go up to 5x5. Looking at HD and Lowes they offer .15 but don't remember what they are treated with. I know I'm not comparing apples to apples because the box stores use a different treatment but I think the .60 CCA is superior to the box stores. Anybody know for sure?

 

[Egon]

A little off topic but in a time long past polar posts were set upright in barrels filled with water and bluestone. They lasted well.

 

[CCWKen]

Well, I don't know when the change happened but I bought all the lumber for my pole barn and 3-sided shed at Home Depot. It was all CCA including the 2x4s and 2x6s. In fact I'm dreading a few changes I want to make to the barn since I used screws to put it together. Any one that's tried removing 3" screws from dried CCA knows what I'm talking about. Dumb me just waltzed through on the last trip and saw PT lumber and thought it was the same as the old stuff. I wasn't aware of any classes then. And it sure wasn't sold like that when I bought the barn wood. CCA was all they sold then. Every time I went for a load, I made sure I had my gloves.

 

[rickyb01]

Looks like the box stores use .15 Copper Azole

 

[roadhunter]

A little off topic but in a time long pasted polar posts were set upright in barrels filled with water and bluestone. They lasted well.

That's what a lo to guys used to do around here but they used Pebta. You can still buy Penta for pesticide applications if you have an applicators license.