Dam for Pond the right way?

   / Dam for Pond the right way? #1  

kubotal3130

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Feb 5, 2009
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I am having a 120' x 100' pond put in next week and the guy that is doing it asked if I want a Pipe at the dam to control overflow or to cover the dam with Rip-raft/rocks which will prevent the dam from washing out. He prefers rip-raft but I'm not sure what is the right way. Any thoughts? Thanks.
 
   / Dam for Pond the right way? #3  
If you are in an area with cold winters, I can tell you the pipe solution is extra maintenance. This is especially true if your pond flow completely freezes up during winter.

In the diagram CATMAN posted, for example, you could have just a dribble of water spilling into the pipe in very cold weather. This will form a big icicle inside the pipe, or at the exit mouth, or both :). It can easily freeze it shut.

My pipe wasn't installed as nicely as the one shown, but the first year it was wiped out by rain lifing an existing ice cover up under the pipe lip. This year it was going well until the frost came out of the ground - the pipe stayed heaved up and a leak got started below it. That could have been avoided with better installation maybe. Even so, over the winter I used an 8 lb splitting maul to clear ice away about six different times. Had to clear the inlet and outlet of the pipe. At one point, the pipe had about 6" of ice build up inside for most of it's length.

I am done with the pipe method and switching over to a rocked spillway.
Dave.
 
   / Dam for Pond the right way? #4  
I am no expert, but I suspect the best answer depends on:

1) where you are, your weather
2) what kind of water flow occurs, both normal and storm surge
3) what is upstream what kind of debris will be washed into the pond (something on a steep hillside in the woods is different from a pond in a flat pasture.

However, unless flows are very low, I don't think I'd put the overflow (with rip rap) over the new dam! Put it off to the side, going a longer distance over virgin ground. IOW, the entire dam should be higher than the overflow.

A pond on a steep wooded hillside will have a lot lot of debris washed into the pond which could block any pipe. OTOH, something in a flat meadow will have lesser flows and little significant debris.

Going around the dam with the overflow will keep you on virgin soil and also a much longer path for the water, so erosion would not be a problem like it would if the overflow goes across the dam.

Ken
 
   / Dam for Pond the right way? #5  
I'd go with both your pipe would take care of the main water. If for some reason the pipe did plug then just a simple rock overflow will take care of wash out or back flooding. If you only want one then I'd go with rocks.
 
   / Dam for Pond the right way?
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Thanks to all of you for the advice. I plan to use pond for skating. Dave...I am in Durham, Maine. I am leaning towards the rock and so is the guy that is doing the work. I've done some research on this forum and looks like rocks can work well if done properly with plenty of rock on inside of dam. Not sure of how much water flow i will have. Pond is at bottom of ridge with at least 4 acres of run off. The pond is pretty much already a natural bowl before being dug and dam will be about 25 feet across to close of bowl. I am going to have 3 inlet pipes coming into dam. Thank you.
 
   / Dam for Pond the right way? #7  
Thanks to all of you for the advice. I plan to use pond for skating. Dave...I am in Durham, Maine. I am leaning towards the rock and so is the guy that is doing the work. I've done some research on this forum and looks like rocks can work well if done properly with plenty of rock on inside of dam. Not sure of how much water flow i will have. Pond is at bottom of ridge with at least 4 acres of run off. The pond is pretty much already a natural bowl before being dug and dam will be about 25 feet across to close of bowl. I am going to have 3 inlet pipes coming into dam. Thank you.

Well, be sure to let us know how it worked out. I hope it goes well for you.

I am waiting til later in the summer to have the repairs done on mine, need the water level to go as low as possible. Have to cut some trees first anyways for the spillway path. When my pond is full, there is about 4.5' of water above the original grade level at the outlet. Someday, it will get full and stay that way :D

That core trench filled with clay in CATMAN's post is important. I have some seepage at the base below ground to fix also. You can't see this water, but the pond level drops faster than evaporation would account for during a dry spell. And, a little pool outside and about 20' from the dam is constantly replenished. I think my excavator guy's theory is, let's try a minimalist approach first, we can always get serious later :laughing: I suppose he is right given the size of my pond dam.
Dave.
 
   / Dam for Pond the right way? #8  
Yes, we have one pond here (done a few years before we bought the place) that never overflows. It usually stays about a foot below the bank. I suspect they left a layer of topsoil and it seeps through there.
 
   / Dam for Pond the right way? #9  
Pipe is very common, but it has some drawbacks. The good thing about pipe is that it keeps the water from flowing over your dam. You never want water flowing over the dam because it erodes the dam and leads to failure. The problem with pipe is that it is limited in how much water it can handle, and it clogs up. Some very large ponds have pipes in them, and have worked flawlessly for decades. When a properly built dam fails, it is almost always related the pipe going through it.

Reasons for pipe failure are too much water coming out of the pipe and backwashing the soil around it. It doesn't take very long to lose allot of soil on the back of your dam where the water discharges from the pipe. Another real common problem is water working it's way along the sides of the pipe over time. Anti Seep Colars are really good at stoping this, but only if they are installed properly, and the soil around them is of sufficiant clay quality that is compacted properly. There is allot of "ifs" there that you just wont know if it's right for years. When it fails, you'll know why, but until then, you can only wonder what's going on.

If your pipe fails, or cannot handle the amout of water going into the pond, you will need what is called an emergancy spillway. Ideally, this should go over undesterbed soil. Sometimes that's just not possible, but if you can, that's the best way to do it. The water should flow as slowly as possible when leaving the pond. The slower it flows, the less erosion it causes.

Gravel works great if it's large enough, and if it doesn't go anywhere. It's called rip rap, and is very common for protecting soil from erosion along rivers, in ditches and shorelines. It's used all the time on dams too!!!! Very common, and good advice from your contractor.

When I built my pond, I started out thinking that I wanted to put a pipe in it because that's just what people did. The more I researched it, and realized that the emergancy spillway was so important, I realized that was all that I needed. I do have a small pipe in my pond so that I can lower the water level if I need to. At the time, this seemed like a good idea just in case I was expeting a hurricane and massive amounts of water, or I wanted to mow down the plants along the shoreline and new that after I was done mowing, the rains would fill it right up again. Now that I have it in place, I think that I wouldn't do it again. I just don't need it and think that I wasted money on putting in in there.

Keep is simple and go with the rip rap. Don't save a buck on the rock that you buy because this is what will make or break your dam. Large rock stays in place, smaller rock fills in the voids and traps sediment so the water doesn't erode the soil under the rock. The rock should be angular and sharp to lock together and stay in place.

Good luck,
Eddie
 
   / Dam for Pond the right way? #10  
I'm in the next town over from you New Gloucester. Welcome to the wonderful world of Ponds. The spillway with rip rap will work well. That's the way my pond works. On my pond I dug down, so I don't have a dam. The water level was determined by the lowest shoulder. Good luck and enjoy the obsession.
Phil
 

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