Dealership discussions

[getut]

I have read yet another thread, one of literally hundreds on here, where people tout the dealership loyalty thing... or etiquette... or many other things and the ultimate questions popped into my head that I have been wondering about all day long. I have been unable to resolve these in my head. Here are the questions: Are you guys that are super brand or dealership loyal able to call your dealer WITHOUT telling them who you are and get an up front, first time, no haggling price that is great. My whole problem with trusting a dealer revolves around that sole issue. If I have to haggle a great price, they are out to take me for a ride. If I have to tell them who I am so that I don't have to haggle, then they are preferential (and out to take other people for a ride). If a dealer has to know anything about me, my location, my income, age of first born, color of shirt, then they are most likely out to take me for a ride.

I have never yet seen a car or even tractor dealership that would post their obvious best price on the sticker and hold to it.. and THAT is the reason I have spoken with such skepticism in a good many of the threads talking about dealership loyalty. I can never get past the "salesman" in any of them. I am genuinely curious if this is a character flaw of mine, or if it really is just the dealers of ALL colors in my area.

There are a couple very disturbing points about me asking these questions 1) I am so engrossed in this site that I walk around all day long thinking about the great discussions that have happened on here (some days or weeks old) and 2) that I was unable to control the urge to actually ASK the most likely controversial question after walking around thinking about it all day.

As proof that I asked this question out of genuine curiosity and not just to stoke up an argument, I will not post anything in this thread other than this particular post, but I will read things other people post with great interest.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I deal with 2 dealerships. And I will say that when I call them, I ask for a specific person, I identify myself, and I tell them what I am looking for and ask them to give me a price. Both have my office phone numbers and simply call me back with the information I requested.

As for pricing, my NH/Branson dealer's prices have been excellent. On the tractor itself, they were identical to Corriher's price. On the MMM they beat Corriher by several hundred dollars. On the FEL they beat Corriher by several hundred dollars. On a Farm King snow blower they beat Sweet's price by $295 and delivered it to the back of my tractor free (yielding a much lower delivered price). Now all that said, Corrhier was the 2nd lowest price quote I got on the MMM and FEL, I got several other prices that were higher than Corriher's prices. Sweets was the 2nd lowest price quote I got on the blower, I got several other prices that were higher than Sweet's delivered price.

For Christmas Santa delivered a CCI Top & Tilt system, my NH is not set up with power beyond so I called the NH dealer and the service guy said it would be about $500 for a rear remote . . . but then he said he could save me about $400 by running the plumbing a different way. He has called me back several times and we keep bouncing ideas around so now we both are pretty much in agreement as to what is needed, and the price probably will be around $100 to get what I need, as opposed to what NH's book recommends.

I have similar stories about my Kubota/Cub Cadet/Case dealership.

To me the value of a good dealer is more than price, but I do want great prices. There is service and advice. I like some of the other brands of tractors (many of them in fact), but it would take a lot ot get me to buy a brand from any dealer other than what these two dealers have to offer.

In fact, I looked at 2 Mahindra tractors today. Not seriously shopping but we now have a dealership in the area and it is near the stable my daughter rides at . . . so I thought I would look. The dealeship is actually a long established high quality garden/landscape center, and their focus is on landscaping, not on tractors. It would take a lot to get tme to even take that dealership seriously after seeing them today. The tractors might be good, but I want more than that. The prices might be good, but I want more than that.

 

[MikePA]

<font color="blue"> If I have to haggle a great price, they are out to take me for a ride. If I have to tell them who I am so that I don't have to haggle, then they are preferential (and out to take other people for a ride). If a dealer has to know anything about me, my location, my income, age of first born, color of shirt, then they are most likely out to take me for a ride. </font>
I think I found the root of your problem. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The only place that sells vehicles I know of that doesn't negotiate on price is a Saturn dealership (on their new vehicles). Have you ever sold anything via eBay, through the classified section of your local paper, at a yard sale, sell your house, etc. How did you set the selling price? What you paid for it? How much money you had in the item? How much similar items were selling for? How much profit you wanted to make? A myriad of factors go into setting a selling price.

Now that you've set the selling price, did you ever sell it for less? If so, were you trying to 'take the buyer for a ride'? Or did you think (1) Your initial price was too high, and lowered it or (2) Decide you wanted the money now instead of waiting longer to get your initial price or a host of other reasons.

A selling price is composed of at least three things;

1. Dealer Cost, i.e., how much money did they pay the manufacturer for the item.
2. Profit
3. Overhead, e.g., interest costs, costs to run the shop, salaries, wages, etc.

I'd imagine the dealer adds certain percentages to the Dealer Cost to cover Overhead and Profit to arrive at a selling price.

However, their overhead is not fixed, i.e., interest costs can rise and fall based upon how much inventory they are carrying, therefore they can negotiate a lower price sometimes and still make the same profit percentage.

Negotiating the price is the sales model for vehicles and tractors, it is not an indication that the dealer is out to take you for a ride. The dealer is in a business and is out to make the most profit on each sale. You are the buyer, out to pay the least. It's not personal, it's economics and it's business.

My personal approach is to assume the dealer is a good person, out to make a fair profit and not out to 'take me for a ride'. This keeps my blood pressure down. Have I purchased from a dealer who actually did take me for a ride? Probably. But I figure that the market will eventually take care of a dealer with such poor business ethics.

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The only place that sells vehicles I know of that doesn't negotiate on price is a Saturn dealership (on their new vehicles). )</font>

How about Carmax for used vehicles? To the best of my knowledge, the prices are posted on each vehicle they have for sale, and if you have a trade-in, they'll give you a written price that they'll buy your vehicle for, whether or not you buy theirs. At least that's what they told me. Two years ago, I bought a 2001 Ford Windstar from one of their lots and last month I bought a 2001 Ford Ranger from another of their places.

And, Mike, I think you've provided a good answer to the original post.

 

[Glenn9643]

In this area we are fortunate to have dealers for several tractor brands including NH, AGCO/MF, JD, Kubota, Case/IH, Mahindra, and others. Several years ago when I was shopping for my first tractor my experiences varied with different dealers, but these experiences have modified my shopping habits since then and probably for the future, at least while I’m in this area. At the time my knowledge of tractors was very limited concerning the available products, options, etc.
In trying to buy from the JD guy I found that he was trying to take advantage of my ignorance. He has been removed from my list.
The Kubota dealership seems to be a sideline business here, with emphasis placed on a trucking business. The sales personnel were unavailable most of the time, and when they were they weren’t very helpful. Also noticed that they don’t carry much in the way of implements, and just weren’t focused on their product. They were removed from my list.
Case/IH and Mahindra is a large dealership, but I’ve never found a salesperson there. In spite of having a huge selection on their lot all of the time my experience has been that I had to go into the parts dept to try to get information or a price. They just don’t seem to care if they get my business. They’re off the list.
I bought my first tractor from the NH guy. He was straightforward, gave what I thought was good advise, and his price seemed to be reasonable. After the purchase he backed his product and took time to discuss questions that I had just as he did when trying to sell the tractor. He’s still on my list, even though I bought elsewhere this last time. Good people.
The MF dealer is also co-located with a large truck sales outfit, but within the last year has moved into a new building with excellent shop facilities. Good people, prices, and support after the sale. They are still on the list.
In a few years I intend to get a cab tractor, with heat/ac, and make work more pleasant as I age. I probably won’t limit my search to the two that are on my current list, but will have to expand my area to try new dealers for other brands.
Any sensible person realizes that if a dealer is to survive he must make a profit. I guess the rub is determining how much profit is reasonable? Any time that I feel that I’m being “abused” or “taken advantage of” I’ll move along, but on the other hand I respond to what I perceive as decent treatment and being properly taken care of and appreciated with a certain amount of loyalty. Not blind loyalty.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

You are a cut buyer. I will tell you this, most dealers are ag oriented and are just starting to understand the cut buyer. When dealing with farmers the dealers know who the farmer is. It is similar to the construction industry as well as others. The salesman visit farms and try to drum up business for the dealership. They give the best price they can and hope that it will win them a sale. They know if they can get their foot in the door with a farmer that their machines will be seen by others and it will help to promote them for more sales. So they do not have to make a lot of money for each sale if they can sale more units. It is a basic business principle. Each dealer needs to decide if they want to sell multiple units at a reduced price or just a few units at a higher price. Smart dealers sell units at a reduced price to promote their brand. What better promotion then for prospective buyers to see their tractors all over the country side. These dealers are the ones who tend to be good dealers. They understand the importance of having their machines in view of the public and they will do what is right to make sure their machines stay in the public.

Now this brings up the cut market. The cut market is a different animal. The buyers are not the type of buyer that the dealer will expect to see back for multiple purchases. For the most case a cut buyer will buy their tractor and implements all at once. The dealer will get one sale and not see them again except for service. Dealers have to understand this and learn how to market and meet the needs of the cut market. The other thing is that cut buyers have a different attitude then farmers. They look at a tractor purchase as just that, just a purchase. It is no different then buying a new tool set. They research the tractor and buy what they think fits their need. Farmers look for dealers that meet their need because they know that they will need that dealer for as long as they are in business.

In time as cut sales increase dealers will learn what works and what won't. What I have seen for the most part is the people on this board that have great dealers are the people who are in the ag industry and the people who come across to me as honorable and trustworthy. Some people come across as having attitudes and dealers would just as soon have those people buy elsewhere then the have to constantly deal with them. Show trust in your dealer and they will reward you. If they don't you learn a lesson and you let others know and in the end the dealer will lose business over it.

I have a great dealer. I trust my dealer and they take care of me. I do not doubt them and they are honest with me. They explain how the pricing works. They even help me to understand the pricing in the books so that I know what the numbers mean as I look thru various options for different tractors. My dealer knows who I am and what my farm intentions are. They know I buy from them and will continue to buy from them as long as they can meet my needs. If they don't have what I need they will help me locate someone who does. I bought a disc a few years ago, I talked to them about a new disc and my salesman told me that it would not be worth it for me to spend that much. He told me he will ask around and see if he can find a used one. Two days later I got a call from a farmer I did not know. He told me my salesman asked him if he had any disc he didn't want and that I was interested. This farmer who I have never met let me come to his farm with my TN, try out a couple disc on his field to see how my TN handled them and I ended up buying one of them from him a couple days later. He let me take his tractor to bring the disc home and from that day I have a new friend who I can borrow equipment if I need to and he can borros mine if need be. He has helped me a lot since I have met him and I have helped him as well. I owe his friendship to my dealer and I will continue to strengthen my friendship with my dealer and their employees.

But for you I do not know what you can do. You are a different type of buyer with different needs. I have read your other post and you look at a dealer in a different way. Your post come across that a dealer is out to make the most money they can off of you. In construction when we meet people who we expect to be problem clients we give them a very high price to do their job. If they accept our price we make enough to have to deal with them. If they end up not being what we expect we give them a great discount at the end of the job but we cover ourselves before hand. From your post in other dealership threads I would expect dealers look at you as a possible problem client and they don't see any future sales to make it worth their while to deal with you. It seems cruel but it is life. Why put yourself in a situation that will come back to haunt you. It is the same if you meet a person, you might like that person but if you offend or insult them they will not make it a point to foster a friendship with you. Dealers are friends. Anyone you deal with you should consider treating as a friend. We buy a new truck every few years. We deal with the same guy each time, when he got promoted he told us who we should deal with as he knew us and knew the new salesman would take care of us. In this world everything comes back to trusting people. If you do not trust people they will not trust you and you will get higher prices.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

<font color="blue"> I have never yet seen a car or even tractor dealership that would post their obvious best price on the sticker and hold to it.. </font>

I know all new cars are supposed to come with a window sticker. There's your price. You just don't want to pay it. The problem is not the dealers.

You don't haggle when you go to the grocery store or when you put fuel in your tank. Why do you think this has to be different for you?

Just a little something for you to think about.

 

[BarryinMN]

Most salespeople are either naturally or are trained to make friends, find commonality, build an "R" first with potential customers.

Clumsy sales people can easily make you feel like your being shaken down. On these I like to fast forward thru the benefits features and get to price. Then with a straight face I say "but I only want to buy one" Sit back & watch what happens next!

On buying a tractor, I worked directly with the shop owners. These guys know their product, competition and pricing. Their range was withing 3%.

When you are comfortable with the deal, shop & product it will make sense to crack open the checkbook.

 

[MikePA]

<font color="blue"> You don't haggle when you go to the grocery store or when you put fuel in your tank. Why do you think this has to be different for you? </font>
I agree Gary. If a dealer put their best price on the sticker and wouldn't haggle, people would complain about that, too. Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

 

[thcri]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> I have never yet seen a car or even tractor dealership that would post their obvious best price on the sticker and hold to it.. </font> )</font>

Actually a few of the car dealerships around here are putting their best price on the window. No hassle shopping. I actually like it. You see the price and they don't negotiate. Price is the Price.

murph