Snow Equipment Buying/Pricing Dealing with drifts

   / Dealing with drifts #1  

picklerick

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
32
Location
Pepperell,MA
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None
Hi,

So I have a 1/4 mile driveway that's next to a large open field. Last February we got a snow storm that dumped a few feet of snow. I used my pickup and plow to plow it and no harm, no foul. When I tried to go out the next afternoon, I discovered that wind had blown the snow back onto my driveway and I had 4'-5' drifts that were 30' long. I have a 3/4 ton chevy (gas) and tried to get through it with my plow and I got about half way in and got stuck. What I didn't realize is because it was wind-blown and on the dry side, it was packed in tight. I ended up digging out my truck and then digging through the drift with a steel shovel the next day. I figure I need to get a tractor and snow blower and/or FEL. I've got other needs for a tractor as well (specifically I need a flail mower for pasture) so I'd like to score a twofer and make sure I solve both problems in a single purchase. I'd appreciate any advice you guys might have. I'm a complete newbie so I'm coming into this cold. (no pun intended) :)

Thanks!
 
   / Dealing with drifts #2  
Good afternoon picklerick, welcome to the forum,

One question comes immediately to mind, would your neighbor that owns the field(assuming you are no the land owner),
install snow fence? One to three rows of snow fence separated at least one hundred fifty feet apart would catch and hold a huge amount of snow.

The other option would be to purchase a used 3020 or 4020 John Deere with the slide shift mechanical transmission which will allow you to provide much more power to a brand new wider rear snow blower and a brand new flail mower.

Many of the members have rear mount snow blowers on the Kubota BX class of sub compacts and move a lot of snow with out a heated cab.
My fathers neighbor had a BX2350 with front mount snowblower and a fully enclosed weatherproof cab and a kubota heater defroster and she loved it. she could get in the cab in without wearing a heavy coat and drive out of the garage and clear out her huge driveway whenever she wanted to in winter with her front mounted snow blower.
Unless you invest in a very high horsepower hydrostatic drive mule you will be losing a lot of power to heat and a mechanical drive transmission mule will not have that issue.

What it all comes down to is money and more money.

A Kubota RTV 900 or 1100 with a motorized 2 stage snow blower would let you clear snow but the issue is clearing it every couple of hours while it is snowing if the wind is not an issue with visibility.

A john deere 3020 with a loader and quick attach mounting system would let you mount the larger motorized RTV snowblower up front and also remove it whenever you wanted to use the loader.


You have time to examine this very well before you open your wallet and you have to decide how much money you want to spend or can afford to spend for a piece of machinery.

Many of the members have small hydrostatic drive kubota mules, chains, loaded tires and wider rear mount snowblowers which lets them clear snow effectively but at a bit slower pace. this allows lets them clear snow more quickly with a wider rear mount when the snow is not deep or for that matter take half cuts driving faster.
There are many videos on you tube that show rtv's with front mounted snow blowers and also tractors with front mounted and rear mounted snow blowers.


You have to decide how much money you can afford to spend and be sure to purchase a mule with at least 15-30 horsepower more to use if it is a hydrostatic mule or a good used JD 3020 or 4020 with the slice shift transmission and a wide snow blower in either a single stage or a two stage snow snow clearer.

A four foot single stage rear mount Reist snow caster with no bells or whistles will cost you $4,000.00 canadian dollars and they are a bargain with the exchange rate as good as it is in our favor you can order then in a five foot wide version as well. you can always add a hydraulic chute rotation later as it comes with a manual rotation hand crank for the one piece spout.

You have to plan and plan and plan as you may have years where you have little snow and years like last year.

If you are familiar with decision trees you need to do that and make an upside down decision tree to make a full examination of the issue as there are may ways for you to do this. The other thing is needed simplicity, the simpler and dumber any machinery is the better, that is why I love single stage snow throwers as they are not complicated with a 3 or 4 blade fan to cast the snow away.

The other issue is the open augers used on these 2 stage snow blowers as they do not chew up the snow to break it into smaller pieces to make it easier to get rid of and will always push the snow forward into the snow pack as you are trying to clear it with a smaller snow caster. and that issue is only solved with more power and a two auger snow caster which is much more expensive than a single stage Riest snow thrower.

I am not trying to impede you progress nor spend your money just leave your wallet and check book home when you start looking after you build your decision trees please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





The only exception to this is the Pronovost TRC two stage snow casters with a rotating impeller drum that bypasses the chute and spout entirely to reduce any chance of plugging by simply casting the snow left or right and the packed snow will not be an issue as it will not pile up in front of the snow caster as you move into the snow pack as the impeller works more effectively by just creating a fire hose stream of snow being pushed through it.
The same holds true for the Reist single stage units and in either case you need to have at least 10 more horsepower in the mule to work well with zero strain on the drive train as you will be in four wheel drive using chains and loaded tires to make the work easier to manage as you will be traveling from zero to 88 to 176 feet per minute depending on the snow depth to clear it away.

I guess I would see how difficult it would be to install snow fence as a first option to make your life easier as you know where the drifts start and end now.


I wish I could be of more help but you have to decide what you can afford to spend and what the payments will be before you even walk into a showroom as they are not there to help you.
 
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   / Dealing with drifts
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Hi Leonz,

Thanks for the thorough and thoughtful reply! I really appreciate it.

I looked at installing a snow fence as I own the field. The research I did said that the snow fence has to be 35' from the driveway for every foot of fence. So if I had a 10' tall snow fence, it would need to be 350' from my driveway. That's doable but when the snow blows the other way, I'm going to bury my neighbors homes as they're right on the property line. I could do three rows of shorter ones and plan on giving it a try.

Yea, I went through the tractor dealer's build systems and realized I was in a whole other class of device. The little research I've done so far suggests the flail is going to drive the PTO HP requirement into the 40+ range and that sized tractor will land me somewhere in the 45K range with a cab and loader if I were to buy new. Add on implements and it's 55K if it's a nickel. So I'm on the horns of a dilemma. I can make that work though a combination of cash and financing, but I want to make sure I get good value for my money. I'm not mechanically-inclined so I'm hesitant to buy a used tractor because my ability to judge good from bad is limited and I don't want to get taken.

My apologies if I'm going off the snow-removal topic, but as I see it, I have five things I need from the unit. The first 3 are every year, the other two are probably more one-offs or two offs.

1. Snow removal including long 5' deep drifts.
2. Mowing pasture with a flail. Flail is mandatory because of proximity to people and road.
3. Hauling heavy items on pallets from the road to my house. (pallet forks on loader)
4 Spreading seed.
5. Running cable underground.

I figure I can rent a subsoiler and a spreader when I need them but the other stuff is ad-hoc. I don't want to overbuy, but I don't want to outgrow something and have to trade up in a few years either. So when I think about this I end up in a mobius loop. :)
 
   / Dealing with drifts #4  
Hi Leonz,

Thanks for the thorough and thoughtful reply! I really appreciate it.

I looked at installing a snow fence as I own the field. The research I did said that the snow fence has to be 35' from the driveway for every foot of fence. So if I had a 10' tall snow fence, it would need to be 350' from my driveway. That's doable but when the snow blows the other way, I'm going to bury my neighbors homes as they're right on the property line. I could do three rows of shorter ones and plan on giving it a try.

Yea, I went through the tractor dealer's build systems and realized I was in a whole other class of device. The little research I've done so far suggests the flail is going to drive the PTO HP requirement into the 40+ range and that sized tractor will land me somewhere in the 45K range with a cab and loader if I were to buy new. Add on implements and it's 55K if it's a nickel. So I'm on the horns of a dilemma. I can make that work though a combination of cash and financing, but I want to make sure I get good value for my money. I'm not mechanically-inclined so I'm hesitant to buy a used tractor because my ability to judge good from bad is limited and I don't want to get taken.

My apologies if I'm going off the snow-removal topic, but as I see it, I have five things I need from the unit. The first 3 are every year, the other two are probably more one-offs or two offs.

1. Snow removal including long 5' deep drifts.
2. Mowing pasture with a flail. Flail is mandatory because of proximity to people and road.
3. Hauling heavy items on pallets from the road to my house. (pallet forks on loader)
4 Spreading seed.
5. Running cable underground.

I figure I can rent a subsoiler and a spreader when I need them but the other stuff is ad-hoc. I don't want to overbuy, but I don't want to outgrow something and have to trade up in a few years either. So when I think about this I end up in a mobius loop. :)


====================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

its very hard to rent implements so keep that in mind as renting a ditcher will be easier as you can backfill the trench the same day.


If your looking at 40+ horsepower flail your looking at a seven foot flail mower. I used my four footer and when I mowed my fathers 6 acres of good grass sod it took 4 hours on average to keep a 2 inch cutting height- you need power if you do not intend to mow often AND you will be crawling-my dad used his ford jubilee to mow down 12-15 foot golden rod to reclaim his old pasture with a 7 foot john deere 25A flail mower.


A couple more things to kick around for you as you obviously want to invest in the long haul, another option is a tracked skid steer but buying new is expensive long before the attachments try to sneak in for the ride AND base prices for high flow units can reach in the high figures before you invest in a hydraulic drive snowblower.


SO it leads back to a subcompact with a loader bucket-less weight per pallet will avoid causing you a lot of damage as the loader frames are only ment to be used to scoop light materials i.e. sand, wood chips, loose manure, snow, sawdust. They are not ment for heavy loads and even using a three point hitch forklift is an issue because you always have to have a heavy counterbalance load in the bucket and that may not be enough.

1. It is less of a worry if you rent a trencher for a day and backfill it with the trencher-the tracked toro dingos are really easy to use.

2. a towed ground drive spin spreader will cost you less money to own and operate. But you can also purchase a three point hitch PTO powered spreader that you can use to spread salt and sand on your road.

As much as I would like you to buy a good used row crop tractor a new sub compact with a heated cab with a quick attach loader and a rear mount snow blower are your "glued to the ground" options/needs with the eventual purchase of a flail mower and spinner spreader. With the heated cab, loader, flail mower and you may be looking at 38K.


Using a sub compact with a loader to plow with allows you to mount a snow plow on it and use it until you need to use the snowcaster.


I would much rather you spent the time talking to someone at Iowa Farm Equipment as they are not hemmed in by the huge subcompact market and will sell you only what you need to use. Barlows is another option as they discount heavily and deliver and pick up the mules if needed.


After you talk to someone at Iowa Farm Equipment you will know a lot more about your issues that you did not know.

If your totally walled in by $$$$$$$$$$ issues call Barlows and get a price as you are still looking at a lot of money.

I ownly want to help you not cause you more problems. Your starting this late so you are already burning daylight to paraphrase an old expression.



It is not hard to figure on you just have to sit down and do the decision tree and reverse decision tree.
 
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   / Dealing with drifts
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Hi Leonz,

I really appreciate you taking the time to offer advice. I'd like to circle back to your earlier recommendations and validate some of my assumptions. Earlier you had said

"The other option would be to purchase a used 3020 or 4020 John Deere with the slide shift mechanical transmission which will allow you to provide much more power to a brand new wider rear snow blower and a brand new flail mower."

In engineering terms, I know simpler is typically easier to maintain. How much mechanical know-how would I need to maintain an old JD as compared to a newer tractor. When you say the older tractors are simple, how much on-going twiddling is required to keep one running? The reason I ask is I've changed oil on my zero turn mower, applied grease and swapped filters on the schedule, but that's pretty much the extent of my mechanical experience. Would I be in over my head on an old tractor like a 3020?

I'm still digesting the rest of your points. Will probably hit you up with more questions this evening. Thanks for your help!
 
   / Dealing with drifts #6  
I have a 3/4T truck with plow and also an LS XR3037HC tractor. I have a PA quick attach plow on the front of the tractor and a 7' double auger Lorenz blower on the 3 pt. I am in the snow belt S.E. of Lake Ontario and see lots of snow. Around home I use the tractor for snow plowing / blowing. The truck is for other plowing jobs.
 
   / Dealing with drifts #7  
Hi Leonz,

Thanks for the thorough and thoughtful reply! I really appreciate it.

I looked at installing a snow fence as I own the field. The research I did said that the snow fence has to be 35' from the driveway for every foot of fence. So if I had a 10' tall snow fence, it would need to be 350' from my driveway. That's doable but when the snow blows the other way, I'm going to bury my neighbors homes as they're right on the property line. I could do three rows of shorter ones and plan on giving it a try.
\ :)

I never saw a 10' snow fence but putting a fence 350' away from the driveway seems ridiculous. Just get rolled 4 or 5' snow fence and put it 40 feet away or so.
 
   / Dealing with drifts #8  
Hi,

When I tried to go out the next afternoon, I discovered that wind had blown the snow back onto my driveway and I had 4'-5' drifts that were 30' long. I have a 3/4 ton chevy (gas) and tried to get through it with my plow and I got about half way in and got stuck. What I didn't realize is because it was wind-blown and on the dry side, it was packed in tight. I ended up digging out my truck and then digging through the drift with a steel shovel the next day.

Thanks!

Welcome to my world! Leon has exposed a lot of the key issues, one of the main ones he brought up is how much you can afford to spend to solve this problem. Snow fencing is one of the most cost effective tools.

I would like to suggest a 40 to 60 Hp tractor with a plow on the front and rear 3 point blower, or a front loader mount skid steer blower with a hydraulic power pack on the rear 3 point. And tire chains. And a cab. If you don't have a cab, you'll be reluctant to get out there during or shortly after the wind event. Getting those drifts cleared before they finish setting up makes it a lot easier. And I agree with Deer Dude, we protect part of our driveway with snow fence, I have the standard 4 foot fence and it is effective from about 30 feet out to about 100 feet or more. We have it set about 60 feet from our driveway. 350 is just not practical for most situations, nor would it be effective in many.

If you can place the snow fence where the leeward side is accessible by a tractor, when the drifts reach the height of the fence and start to broaden out you can get in there and plow the drifts up to 6 or 8 feet (using FEL mounted plow or even the tractor's bucket) and then the fence becomes effective again.
 
   / Dealing with drifts #9  
Lots of threads over the years on this topic...SEARCH.

Snow blower vs plow both have there pros and cons.
 
   / Dealing with drifts #10  
Hi Leonz,

I really appreciate you taking the time to offer advice. I'd like to circle back to your earlier recommendations and validate some of my assumptions. Earlier you had said

"The other option would be to purchase a used 3020 or 4020 John Deere with the slide shift mechanical transmission which will allow you to provide much more power to a brand new wider rear snow blower and a brand new flail mower."

In engineering terms, I know simpler is typically easier to maintain. How much mechanical know-how would I need to maintain an old JD as compared to a newer tractor. When you say the older tractors are simple, how much on-going twiddling is required to keep one running? The reason I ask is I've changed oil on my zero turn mower, applied grease and swapped filters on the schedule, but that's pretty much the extent of my mechanical experience. Would I be in over my head on an old tractor like a 3020?

I'm still digesting the rest of your points. Will probably hit you up with more questions this evening. Thanks for your help!

============================================================================


A John Deere 3020 or 4020 is simple easy to maintain and has none of the pollution gizmos/crap to deal with and parts are still available. cleaning the radiator with a water hose in warm weather and clearing the chaff screen is a must do item.
The intake air filter is a 2 cartridge system with a safety element and they both need to be changed regularly as the safety element is designed to stop all the really fine dust that gets through the folds of the primary element.
If you can find one with a cyclone pre cleaner you will be in heaven as long as its not damaged.


The axles on these things are beasts and are designed for row crop work. The Getman Brothers Company uses John Deere row crop tractor axles for most all its rubber tired underground mining machinery.

As far as maintenance goes its filters, greasing and oil changes and checking the oil level in the rear axle occasionally.
The shuttle shift transmissions were designed for the 30, 40 and 50 series of John Deere row crop tractors in the early 1960's. I do not remember if the 30 and 40 series diesels are direct or indirect injection.

I am going to suggest that you call Wengers of Myerstown, PA to ask about where they might know of a 30 or 40 series tractors with a front end loader or if they have one that they have not broken up for parts. I would also call the John Deere dealers with a one hundred miles distance of you and ask the same questions.

Avoid the tricycle row crop tractors as you can flip one before you realize that you turn too sharply-BUT in saying that though you can have a tricycle front end converted to an adjustable front row crop front axle too.

I would also suggest that you subscribe to farm show magazine as they have plenty of links to older john deere mules.




So much of this is going to depend on the rubber too as mule tires of that size are very expensive if you invest in turf tires for the front and rear and they will last a very long time and you will need ring chains for the rear tires.

There is much more to talk about with regard to this and chatting by e-mail prevents my losing the stuff I type.
Please send me a PM with your e-mail and we can work this out and don't hesitate to post questions about the 3020 on the John Deere Farm Equipment page on the forum as well.
 

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