Deere compact 2210 PTO failure...(:<(( Been there??

[webguydave]

Well.....when I bought this tractor I looked at the aluminum hydro trans case and said..'Huh! Really?'
I should have remembered that....

Digging some post holes with the auger I encountered some rocks, which transmitted some shock back to the trans and sure enough , things quit working.
After a bit of digging around, I found some earlier posts ( 2005 - 2012) of guys with the same problem, either thru augers or hitting something with the mower blade(!).
Best case, stripped gears, worse case, busted bearing supports in the tranny case. And after opening it up today, it is indeed 'worse case'..AND a couple banged up gears.

So, what previous experience has anyone had with this, and what route did you take to repair?

I see maybe 3 routes that I'm capable of 1) buy new tranny case from Deere and swap out components 2) buy a used tranny from a scrapper 3) repair the case and limit my pto use to the undercount 54" mower. I'd guess a new case could easily be in the $1500 range, and a used tranny probably the same ballpark ( with the added worry that it's a 'pig in a poke').

Repair...I see raised eyebrows already, but bear with me. The bearing support broke off in to two good sized pieces, and fit back into place quite nicely - with a bearing in place to provide the shape and rest for the broken pieces, there's a good chance the tolerances will be or can be made usable. There's room to either MIG weld or TIG braze ( I can do either, but I need to research the specifics, and practice on some scrap, maybe a LOT of practice ...LOL). Upside is that I can get the job done much more quickly than waiting for parts, and if I screw it up and/or it breaks down the line, I have the other options.

Going forward, I think I'll be on the lookout for a bigger machine for the heavier pto work; I have a lot of fencing, chipping and bush hogging in the future. The 2210 works well mowing and the loader is pretty sweet - saves the back a lot and comes off / goes on in about 5 minutes.

Dave in Esmont, Va
Newly retired Calif contractor, with one last client...the wife!!

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Welcome to the forum.

I would research welding cast aluminum to see options. It has been a long time since I wrote up about our company's 2210 blowing up the tranny. My boss ended up trading in the thing. I can't remember if I've read of an upgraded case that has more bearing support or not for this model. If a new design case is available, I would probably go that route.

Also, these may be Tuff Torq trannys, FWIW.

I wish you the best. Keep us posted on what you end up doing.

Vermont is kind of far from California.

 

[ruffdog]

There is a big difference between cast aluminum and CA that has been bathed in oil. I have TIG welded oiled cast and you have to take the time to cook all the oil out. With the way the parts and case look, I would get friendly with the Deere parts guy and try to get a discount on the big box of parts. Live and learn....just fix it right.

 

[webguydave]

Actually, it's Virginia.. and yep! 40 years in California has been quite enough for this Kentucky boy....

Looking at what was in front of me, and at the IPB ( illustrated Parts) and a couple busted gears, a light flashed I'll write it up here shortly!

This is a Tuff Torq tranny ( stamped right on the back); this good, bad..or worse?

Dave

Welcome to the forum.

I would research welding cast aluminum to see options. It has been a long time since I wrote up about our company's 2210 blowing up the tranny. My boss ended up trading in the thing. I can't remember if I've read of an upgraded case that has more bearing support or not for this model. If a new design case is available, I would probably go that route.

Also, these may be Tuff Torq trannys, FWIW.

I wish you the best. Keep us posted on what you end up doing.

Vermont is kind of far from California.

 

[ovrszd]

Sorry for your breakdown. I've had my 2210 ten years. Never had anything attached to the rear PTO.

I too have heard/read of reports of this failure. Kinda like the chicken/egg story. I wonder, does the case fail first and then the gears break teeth? Or do the gears fail first and the broken teeth cause the case to fail?

Post your progress and repair. Your thread will become an important archive in regards to this problem.

 

[webguydave]

It is a sweet little tractor indeed, just can't expect it to do the job of a full size tractor. Love the hydro for loader and mowing!

After thinking about it, I think the bearing in the middle of the output shaft failed first - just shattered! Then the angle of the attachment ( auger) put too much pressure on the internal mount for the bearing at the end of the output shaft, breaking it out. I haven't seen a bearing shatter before....the gears broke when one or more teeth gave way, perhaps because of the resulting mis-alignment? It all happened pretty much all at once, I'm sure.

A very significant factor is the angles that the auger pto shaft was working at - I forget what the most extreme recommended angle on the u-joints is, but I'm sure I exceeded that. There's really no way around that extreme angle, given the small rear tire diameter - the tractor sits closer to the ground, making the auger bit itself barely clearing the ground when the 3 point lift is at it's highest.

So, I tend to think a straight line pto application, like a tiller, might be 'safer'...on the other hand, I've read of more than one pto breakage happening with a...tiller! So maybe I'm all wet, and these trannys just aren't up to the demands.

Dave in Esmont, Va

Sorry for your breakdown. I've had my 2210 ten years. Never had anything attached to the rear PTO.

I too have heard/read of reports of this failure. Kinda like the chicken/egg story. I wonder, does the case fail first and then the gears break teeth? Or do the gears fail first and the broken teeth cause the case to fail?

Post your progress and repair. Your thread will become an important archive in regards to this problem.

 

[webguydave]

Got a point there with the contaminated aluminum - I'd forgotten about that little issue. That kind of thing leads to weak / crappy welds with no strength ... and it would be a job to get a clear shot at all the webbing as well...but, I've got another idea... stay tuned!

Best

Dave

There is a big difference between cast aluminum and CA that has been bathed in oil. I have TIG welded oiled cast and you have to take the time to cook all the oil out. With the way the parts and case look, I would get friendly with the Deere parts guy and try to get a discount on the big box of parts. Live and learn....just fix it right.

 

[webguydave]

I've got a plan!!

I’m looking at the parts and looking at the IPB, which notes an ‘intermediate ‘ gear. So I traced the power flow and realized that the gear train to the mid pto isn’t damaged. And I can leave out all the parts for the rear pto, and block the hole for the pto shaft with a soft / expansion plug. The end result is I will have a working mower ( mid pto), a loader and a 3 point! No rear pto but really no loss, since it’s been demonstrated that that’s not reliable...solution for that?

Buy a _bigger tractor_ with a cast-iron tranny and diff - maybe a 'restoration' project -just for the rear pto work! A big win all the way around!



The top gearset is the selector (mid/rear/both), the middle gear is the intermediate and the lower gear is the mid pto shaft ( exiting to forward).

One bonus is that getting to this, in terms of disassembly, was really easy. Even removing the bearing on the end of the rear pto shaft ( required to separate it from the back plate) did not require a press - just a tight slip fit!

Tomorrow being Monday, I'll make a run for the parts and should have an answer pretty quick...fingers crossed!

 

[webguydave]

Success!! If you call doing without a rear pto success.....

Reassembled the rear cover with a Dorman 1 1/4" expansion plug filling the hole where the pto shaft passed through.

Left out the pto shaft / and intermediate geared jackshaft, which stilll allows the mid pto shaft to operate. Was only able to do this because the parts I left out where, thankfully, the only drivetrain parts busted. Had any other gears been damaged, this would not have worked, at least without replacing gears.

So I got off easy, really. Couldn't be much simpler in pulling the back of the tranny off, access to the gear train and reassembling. I should note that I spent considerable time fishing around with a magnet, sucking up bits of gear teeth and splinters off the bottom of the trans case. Changing out the filter probably would be a good idea as well.

As I also noted above, I made the decision to go forward with an operative rear pto on this tractor based on the notion that I couldn't actually trust the tractor to do what I wanted in terms of pto work, like running a chipper, an auger or even a bushing with it breaking again. And I hate to be without a loader - I use it almost daily. And the grass gets cut....

On the heels of all this, a rather tired Deere 2010 followed me home a couple days ago, with the intention that I use it for the pto tasks..but not with a problem of it's own...

Oh well...hope this helps someone in the future - beats spending ungodly amounts of money for a new case and labor!

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Thanks for the update