Descisions, Decsions, Decisions...

Brian_Stephens · Apr 20, 2004

Ok I don't want to get into the this brand is better then this brand discussions.. We are about to buy our first tractor and it's just mind boggling the things people will tell you to try and get you to buy.... IE The HP range I need is xx to xx... I've had folks tell me I can't do what I need with a compact tractor...

I have 100 acres in the Middle of nowhere Ontario Canada... I have 30 acres in mixed bush ( 5 acres of sugar maple ) I have 2 acres in apples and am in the process of expanding that (hopefully to 30+ in the long term but to 15+ in the next 2-3 years) I have 6 acres of lawn around the house and the wife has a small apiary (4 hives this year) and a small 3/4 acre garden...

We've looked at most of them Blue (boomers), Green (4x00's, 4x10's , x55's , x90's) Orange (Kubota & Kioti) ... Is there anybody else I should look at ...

I want the tractor to help me clear the land (take down trees and haul them out), Level it, snow clearing, cutting the lawn, and generally hauling stuff around... I have a number of building projects that I will be getting into over time so a backhoe would be really nice to have...

Right now I sorta stuck between a new Kioti CK20HST and several used tractors.. The Kioti has both a BH and loader where as for the same money on most of the others I'm looking at a loader and 5-10 more HP but no BH...

The questions become; how important with what I am looking for is the HP going to be... The other question is the universality of implements the Father in law has a 20 year old JD 955 and a pile of implements(tiller, sprayer) .. Some he hasn't used for 10 years... He's said I can have them if he's not using them.. Is a 3PH a 3PH is a 3PH as long as I have the PTO HP? His machine is only 19 HP so I would expect that if I get the Kioti with 20 HP that anything he ran I should be able to run...

The last thing is what else should I be looking when buying new? Are extended warranties a good thing or are they a pay me now or pay me later sort of thing?

thanks...

SteveM · Apr 20, 2004

People always think bigger is better, but it isnt always.... for one thing, if you want ONE tractor to do all you describe, there will be compromises. To mow the lawn around the house you want something kind of small and light, maybe a belly mower. To haul out trees, level ground with a box blade, you want weight. To spin a big brush mower you need PTO HP....

My sense is you have set a budget at or near the price of the Kioti CK20 - and I would suggest you apply those funds toward a used, name brand tractor with loader and backhoe if you can find one. $12,000 will get you quite a bit of tractor if you take time to search - start with agdealer.com and ironsearch.com - will give you ideas/price ranges.

I would personally prefer a 10yr old Ford 2120 or similar rather than a new, much smaller Kioti. You might then want to spend $1000 or less on a used lawn tractor for the mowing right around the house etc.

Good luck and have fun shopping. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DAP · Apr 20, 2004

Welcome Brian ... I know I won't be the first to say, based on your given information, that a CK20 is too small for your intentions. In determining tractor size, the rather simple rule of thumb is bigger is not better, it's faster. You could do all of those things you've mentioned by hand, as an extreme. It would take quite a while however and not be nearly as fun.

Anytime one talks about clearing land of trees, right there you are looking at a very minimum of 30hp in my opinion.

Once you start talking about using a machine for 'building projects', I personally would start at the 30hp mark again. Using a machine this size with a backhoe to dig a foundation for a home for example would take far too much time. Others would wisely recommend letting certains tasks like that be contracted out for excavator class machines.

3PHs are not created equal (See Class 0, Class I, Class III 3pt hitch information).

As far as extended warranties go, that would depend solely on the manufacturer you choose and your relationship with your dealer. The big three machines are engineered with at least a couple of decades worth of dependibility in them assuming no outrageous hourly usage. The extended warranties where they exist are excellent for buying a used machine methinks.

On a piece of land like that, you may end up with a need for more than one machine because of the mowing needs. That depends on the need for manuverability around the house for finish mowing.

As far as your apple endeavors, think this one through carefully. There are entire classes of machines designed for orchard work specifically. Not every blue green or orange machine you'd like may accomodate that part of your needs.

There are quite a few people that successfully finish mow (with either mid mount or rear mount) with 30+hp machines, usually because their topography lets them.

My spouce being Canadian, I know you probably are not dealing with slopes either ...

When anyone starts researching this stuff seriously (it IS a serious investment for most) the first thing you realize is that no machine can do everything in the time and manner we'd like. So ... everyone usually has some compromises to make, whether it be 2nd or 3rd machines, or a willingness to spend more time than desireable.

my dos centavos ...

KiotiJohn · Apr 20, 2004

I have a Kioti CK20. It will do most everything you want, but if you have the BH, you pretty much can't use the MMM unless you remove and reinstall the mounting brackets each time. The clearance (12.2") is pretty good for most jobs. I pull some pretty large tree trunks with mine. I can use a 5' bush hog, but choose to use a 4' and I never have any problems doing so. The PTO horsepower of 15.5 is a little limiting as to using larger PTO implements, but I haven't been bothered by that. It depends on the requirments of the implements. Probably all that your Father-in-law has are for lower PTO HP since his wasn't really high. The most important thing about a 3pt hitch is it's lift capacity. The Kioti CK20 has 1109# of lift which is more than some in the same class. I find the tractor weight (which helps use your HP efficiently) to be sufficient in most cases at 1993 pounds, it's much heavier than many of the same class. All this said, if you want more HP and increases in all the above, a Kioti LK3054XS may be right up your alley and probably for only about $2K more. It has higher hydraulic capacity (another important feature), higher lift capacity on the 3 pt. A mechanical shuttle shift (you have to stop and change to F/R without having to change gears) and uses the same and another BH that the CK20 uses. You would be getting a lot more and have all the power you would probably need. As far as one having HST (assuming you wanted that in the CK) and the other shuttle, I don't think that's a big deal as you will adjust to which ever you have and can be about as quick with either. As for other tractors to check out in addition to your list, Massey Ferguson, Mahindra (you may get a deal on higher HP with everything you wanted) are other good choices, although I found Massey too expensive. The Mahindra uses some Mitsubishi manufacturing and some Daedong (kioti) and others, and seems to be a good tractor with a lot of choices. I hope this helps. John
CK20 Albums

polecat · Apr 20, 2004

I bought an Iseki 3201 with a 6'fel and a 38hp 4 cyl isuzu diesel eng. it's an 85 model but is in good shape and is tough and heavy as nails ..iseki makes massey's and i've seen a lot of guys with smaller name big name brand tractors that cost them a lot more than mine ..I have been totally impressed with this tctr and its 4x4 and very heavy will have pics on soon as am new to tbn ..dont be rash adn i'd do at least a month of research b4 ANY financial decision is made ...MARK MY WORDS ON THAT ONE!!!... if i had done my research better i could have picked the same tractor up fo a few 1000 less..saw the same tractor for 7k here on tbn and i paid 11.. i still feel i got a great tractor so keep an open mind 2 all makes...i had a guy that is about an hour away from me here in maine and he was doin the same thing u r right now...research....he went out and paid 13k for a tractor that is half the tractor mine is and he tbn'd me today bragggin bout it i wrote him back tellin him that i wished he had waited to buy so quickly! He has a lot of heavy work 2 do and could have gotten hiself 3x the tractor for the same $$ its hard not to put a pen to paper awhen yer excited bout gittn something and a salesman has u pumped up .............SO STAY ON TBN A MONTH AND READ THE ARCHIVES AND DO RESEARCH RESEARCH AND HIDE YER CKBOOK!!!!!
KEEP TALKIN 2 ME
TODD /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

BB_TX · Apr 20, 2004

Brian - Welcome to the forum.
According to tractortips.com the 955 has 27 PTO hp (33 engine hp) so I think it is a little more than you thought. That may influence you decision. Tractors this size usually have a category 1 3 point hitch. Generally speaking, an implement designed for a cat 1 will fit on any given tractor designed for a cat 1. I think there are unusual exceptions though.

Brian_Stephens · Apr 20, 2004

my bad .. my father inlaw has an 855. which is 19 PTO HP and 24 on the engine...

KiotiJohn · Apr 20, 2004

( my bad .. my father inlaw has an 855. which is 19 PTO HP and 24 on the engine... ) Then the implements he had will most likely work on a small tractor, but one thing I wanted to tell you: If you find you need to rent implements, most rental agencies do NOT carry low HP PTO implements. Just so you know. As for Polecat's post, yes, the Iseki is a good engine, but just make sure you know what you're buying if you get a gray market Iseki. You MUST know how to work on tractors if you go gray market, or know someone who can that will help you. My dealer has now told me that he's not going to mess with the grays any longer as he states that every one he's had has had some issue that's cost him. Often, overheating and water in the fluids etc. A good mechanic can have a great used tractor. For the others, it's pay pay pay if you don't know what you're doing. John

Brian_Stephens · Apr 20, 2004

Being in Canada buying into the Gray (grey!) market is even worse as the parts are harder to come by.. I started life out looking at being an auto mechanic and ended up a computer programmer, selling various things and running a farm... So messing around with a tractor doesn't really scare me (it probably should!) ...

Standing in the bucket of a tractor with a chainsaw to cut down a tree that had grown into the roof of the barn... Now that idea scared me? I hate heights, so standing on the roof to cut the top of the tree was bad enough but then they suggest that I get the lower part by doing that!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Some say I'm insane I figured that since I wasn't willing to do that maybe I'm not....

BB_TX · Apr 20, 2004

Some say I'm insane I figured that since I wasn't willing to do that maybe I'm not.... 

Oops!! I did just that when clearing the way for my power line. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Standing in the bucket of a large International farm tractor sawing large tree limbs. What does that say for me? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif