Determining Tractor needs

[mainenate]

I know there are a lot of these threads! Thanks in advance for the advice.

Buying 80 acres of woods, about half of it logged with some slash on the ground.

Short term needs (next 4-5 years)

• Clean up limbs/slash around building site (2-3 acres) and along narrow logging roads (now trails). Prefer chipping over burning for emissions reasons, and because of limited burning windows around here.
• Improve 3/4 mile gravel road, which has a decent base, but needs shaping, grading, and needs added material in some places. There's gravel on site, so need to move gravel too.
• Possibly skid out some logs, and handle logs for milling (by someone else).
• Build a barn (site prep, slab, handle materials, etc)
• Build a small house (excavate foundation, handle materials, utility trenches, septic, etc)

Long term needs:

• Maintain 3/4 mile road (shaping and grading, occasional building up, but not much of that hopefully)
• Gardening and landscaping
• Maintain woods, deal with limbs and slash, and probably take a few cords of firewood per year out of the woods.

I've used a Kubota L3940 for a number of years when my dad owned one. That was great for woods work (chipper, logging winch) and road work. It was heavy and destructive for work around the house though, as it tore up yards and even the gravel driveway (w/Ag tires). I'm thinking a 30-34hp with Back Hoe would have a smaller footprint, and make a better match for the long-term jobs.
My questions are, how big would you go? And how much of the short term needs would you try to meet with the tractor, versus contract out or rental?
I suspect a chipper (4-6" power feed) is the job that will determine minimum chipper size. Though for $6000+ purchase price I wonder if renting a big tow-behind chipper a bunch of days would make more sense.
Local dealers include LS, Kiota, Kubota, JD, MF. The only brand I have any experience with is Kubota. Specific suggestions welcome.

Thanks!

 

[nards444]

Whatever you do I would buy more for the long term. A tractor is not going to efficiently dig out your house and barn, an ex can do both of those in probably 3-4 days. driveway, probably an easy day to two day job on a dozer. The way I would think about is short term either renting or hiring what can I get get done. Then what do I plan on doing forever.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Anything I would recommend would be at least as big and heavy as your L3940. Almost everything on your "short term" list requires a bigger unit than you're going to want driving on your lawn. I would also hire out the building site excavations, just to get that out of the way. But slash clean up, running a wood chipper, road repair, yeah that's a pretty good sized tractor there. You're not going to be happy at all with trying to chip any size wood of consequence with less than 40 pto hp. And 50 would probably be a good move. 40 of your 80 acres has been logged? 40 acres of slash to chip?

I think you're looking for 2 separate units. I "big" tractor for all the short term stuff and 80 acre cleanup, and then maybe a small unit or riding mower for your lawn once the house is actually built and you're living in it.

 

[desertdog71]

Same boat, different needs but these guys have been great about sharing knowledge.

 

[ericm979]

A Woodland Mills or Woodmaxx 8" hydraulic feed chipper is about $3k. I have 60 hours on my Woodmaxx 8H. I'm using a 32 pto hp Branson 3725 and at times I wish I had more power for chipping. Burning is not an option for me due to local emissions regs, fire season and the lack of safe areas to burn in. There's way more wood than I can burn in the stove and it's tough to give firewood away here because everyone else has lots of wood too. So I chip fairly large material. If you're chipping 3" or less then 30hp would be ok. Around here renting a chipper is expensive and it's at least an hour to pick up and return. Then you have to work hard all day to make the rental worthwhile. Having a chipper is so convenient. I can go chip a pile or two after work.

A grapple on the front is useful for moving material to be chipped to a better spot. I also use mine for moving logs to my firewood processing area so I don't have to drag them long distances. If you want to haul heavy loads in the loader (like buckets of gravel) you may want a larger tractor that can lift and safely carry more.

I had R1s on the last tractor and got R4s for this one. In my soil they work ok and they tear stuff up less than R1s. But they'll still do a number on the lawn unless it's dry and hard in summer so I keep the tractor off there. We don't have mud due to our sandy soil. If you have a lot of mud you might want R1s.

 

[jeff9366]

mainenate

Where is your land located?

How flat or how hilly is the land where you will tractor? Tractors are inherently unstable. Tractors with loaders are more unstable, very unstable on hills.
If you have hills, tractors with wider wheel stances are appropriate, wider than for operation on flat ground.

What about snow?

Buying 80 acres of woods, about half of it logged with some slash on the ground.

What about 40 acres of stumps? What is your plan for logged half of your ground?


Local dealers include LS, Kiota, Kubota, JD, MF. The only brand I have any experience with is Kubota. Specific suggestions welcome.

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers.
The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to first identify potential tractor applications, then, through consulataton, establish bare tractor weight necessary to safely accomplish your applications. Tractor dealers, experienced tractor owners and TractorByNet.com are sources for weight recommendations.

Sufficient tractor weight is more important for most tractor applications than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, a significant tractor capability increase requires a bare tractor weight increase of 50%. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound. Here is your experience base:

Kubota L3940

2007 - 2013 L40 Series
Compact Utility tractor
Previous model: Kubota L3830
Next model: Kubota L4060
Series next: Kubota L4240
Series back: Kubota L3540

Production:
Manufacturer: Kubota
Original price (USD): $22,159 (2011)

Variants:
L3940DT: 8-speed
L3940GST: 12-speed
L3940HST: hydro
L3940HSTC: hydro cab

Kubota L3940 Engine:
Kubota 2.0L 4-cyl diesel
Kubota L3940 Power:
Engine (gross): 40.5 hp [30.2 kW]
Engine (net): 38.5 hp [28.7 kW]
Gear PTO (claimed): 33 hp [24.6 kW]
Hydro PTO (claimed): 31.5 hp [23.5 kW]

Capacity:
Fuel: 13.2 gal [50.0 L]
Hydraulic system: 11.4 gal [43.1 L]
Front axle: 6.9 qts [6.5 L]

3-Point Hitch:
Rear Type: I
Rear lift (at ends): 3,860 lbs [1750 kg]
Rear lift (at 24"/610mm): 2760 lbs [1251 kg]

Power Take-off (PTO):
Rear PTO: independent
Rear RPM: 540
Engine RPM: 540@2550

Dimensions:
Weight: 3,483 lbs [1579 kg] (DT)
3,968 lbs [1799 kg] (HSTCab)
Wheelbase: 74.6 inches [189 cm]
Length: 121.5 inches [308 cm]
Width: 66.5 inches [168 cm]
Height: 97.4 inches [247 cm]
Ground clearance: 14.6 inches [37 cm]
Front tread: 45.5 inches [115 cm]
Rear tread: 50.6 to 60.2 inches
4WD turn radius: 8.9 feet [2.7 m]

Mechanical:
Chassis: 4x4 MFWD 4WD
Differential lock: standard
Steering: hydrostatic power steering
Brakes: wet disc
Cab: Two-post ROPS. Grand CAB on HSTC.

Hydraulics:
Pump flow: 9.8 gpm [37.1 lpm]
Total flow: 14.7 gpm [55.6 lpm]
Steering flow: 4.9 gpm [18.5 lpm]

Page information:
Last update: November 21, 2014
Copyright: Copyright 2016 TractorData LLC
Contact: Peter@TractorData.com

 

[jeff9366]

mainenate

Clean up limbs/slash around building site (2-3 acres) and along narrow logging roads (now trails).

Grapple..... or Bush Hog to flinders.

Prefer chipping over burning for emissions reasons, and because of limited burning windows around here.
Chipping takes too much time for more than 3 to 4 acres. Too much time for the work and too much time for chipper maintenance after the first year.
Chipping is hazardous. No implement is more likely to induce heart attack or stroke.
Burn wood debris during limited burn windows available.

Chippers work best when blades are adjusted to chip a single hardness of tree. Xmas tree growers chipping Pine love chippers and have less maintenance demands than others.

A Woodland Mills or Woodmaxx 8" hydraulic feed chipper is about $3k. I have 60 hours on my Woodmaxx 8H. I'm using a 32 pto hp Branson 3725 and at times I wish I had more power for chipping.

Yes. Amply powered, large-intake-dimension chippers clog less than smaller chippers and blade sharpening/adjustment is less of an issue.

Improve 3/4 mile gravel road, which has a decent base, but needs shaping, grading, and needs added material in some places.
That is a long road to maintain. You will need a Box Blade, Land Plane/Grading Scraper and/or a rear/angle Blade. Box Blade and rear/angle blade are common implements which do double duty as Three Point Hitch counterbalance to FEL lifts.

There's gravel on site, so need to move gravel too.
FEL bucket is used for moving loose material like gravel. A full bucket of gravel is heavier than a full bucket of dirt. Ample Three Point Hitch counterbalance required.

Possibly skid logs.
Tractors are designed to PULL. Easy work for a tractor.
MORE: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...rs-cross-drawbars-illuminated.html?highlight=

If you want to tow out full length logs clean for milling, you need a Log Arch.
VIDEO: tractor log arch - YouTube

Handle logs for milling (by someone else).
You can lift logs with a grapple but FELs have finite lift capacity, stability and lift height limitations. To lift 2,200 pound logs safely to trailer loading height requires a 5,000 pound bare weight tractor.


Build a barn (site prep, slab, handle materials, etc)
Build a small house (excavate foundation, handle materials, utility trenches, septic, etc)
Leave this work to professionals. It is not tractor work. Pro will use an excavator for foundation work and stump removal near house. Pro will use a skid steer during construction. Both rear-engine machines.


My tentative recommendation is a tractor of 5,000 pounds bare tractor weight rolling on R4/industrial tires. Further recommend recommend a work oriented utility vehicle paired with a dumping trailer.

 

[mainenate]

Thanks for the advice. I'll plan to get site work contracted out.

Not planning to chip 40 acres of land. Most of what was logged is still basically woods. It was very selective logging. But the skidder paths need cleaned up of brush. The majority of the cleanup is the few acres around the building site. Beyond that it'll be selective cleanup, and maintenance of the forrest here and there.

As for snow removal, I've done it with a tractor, and I vastly prefer to do it from the cab of my Tundra, mounted with a proper plow. I can't imagine plowing a 3/4 mile driveway with a tractor. In heavy snow years, it's helpful to use the loader to consolidate piles once or twice during the season, but otherwise, I don't anticipate doing any snow removal with a tractor.

I could see that a dump trailer would be really useful for moving gravel and other material. Something that could move 2 or 3 yards at a time would be great. It all costs money though, doesn't it.

That narrows down the tractor jobs to road maintenance, woods work, and landscape work. Based on building a previous driveway (much shorter, but more involved job) with the L3940, it really was about the right size for the job, and woods work will be similar to what we did with that one (with a Salsco 824 chipper, and a logging winch). Maybe that's the answer. Should have bought my dad's tractor 3 years ago when he got too old to use it, but didn't know we'd be buying land back then! Oh well.

One thing I didn't like about the last tractor was that the front tires (Ag) seemed really soft for loader work. They'd deform under load and that made the tractor feel less stable. Are industrial tires better in that regard?

Our land is gently rolling for the most part, and seems to be primarily gravel (it's on a big esker about 30' above a river bank), so I'm wondering if I'll manage with Industrial tires, and get more stable loader performance, and less chewing up the driveway, etc.

Thanks, Nate

 

[jeff9366]

mainenate

As for snow removal, I've done it with a tractor, and I vastly prefer to do it from the cab of my Tundra, mounted with a proper plow.

YES (Cab tractors are as comfortable as your Tundra.)

I could see that a dump trailer would be really useful for moving gravel and other material.

Probably more useful for collecting debris. Surprising how tiring climbing up and down from a tractor can be, relative to just swiveling legs ninety degrees and standing up from a utility vehicle.

That narrows down the tractor jobs to road maintenance, woods work, and landscape work. Based on building a previous driveway (much shorter, but more involved job) with the L3940, it really was about the right WEIGHT for the job.

Experience is the best guide. L3940 is a Kubota 'Grand L' deluxe tractor. You will probably not be happy with an economy grade tractor. Unusually, Grand L tractors are fitted with two part rear wheel rims with R4/industrial tires, therefore, unusually, R4/industrial tires can be set quite wide for stability, which I recommend over standard width with your rolling land. 6" wider rear wheel stance make a huge contribution to tractor stability.

One thing I didn't like about the last tractor was that the front tires (Ag) seemed really soft for loader work. They'd deform under load and that made the tractor feel less stable. Are industrial tires better in that regard?

Much better. R4s are wider than R1s. Load is spread over a larger tire patch. R4s are six ply supported, rather than four ply. Standard inflation pressure is higher.

Our land is gently rolling for the most part, and seems to be primarily gravel (it's on a big esker about 30' above a river bank), so I'm wondering if I'll manage with Industrial tires, and get more stable loader performance, and less chewing up the driveway, etc.

If the dirt is dry you should be fine on traction. About 90% of new compact tractor/loaders are sold with R4/industrial tires.


Seems you will need a Bush Hog for property maintenance, probably a 1,000 pound heavy duty model. A 72" rotary cutter requires 45 net engine horsepower to operate well.

 

[finn1]

My standard answer: skid steer or, preferably a CTL and a mini excavator.

Tractors are ok for maintenance work, but sounds like you’re far deeper in than that.

You’ll be there forever with a compact tractor.