Diesel 46¢ per gallon?

[CarlGlas]

Has anyone used Diesel Secret Energy ?

Could it really be that simple?

The subject was posted last year, but I haven't seen anything since. Earlier posting pretty much indicated this stuff to be nothing more than snake oil.

 

[Bates]

If it were that simple, the trucking industry would be doing it.

Scam.

The problem with Veggie oil conversion is that you never see anyone (including the trucking industry) willing to run it in a $100,000 Kenworth. It always seems to be powering a 100 dollar 1980 VW Rabbit Diesel.

 

[AKfish]

Yup, a Scam. Although, fuel from old, veggie oil is/was an outgrowth of the bio-diesel idea. The biggest issue seemed to be contaminants and consistent oil type or makeup. If they can develop a process wherein the energy yield of the bio-diesel (quantity) is greater than the energy input needed to produce the bio-diesel then maybe the product will have a role in the marketplace.
But the idea of using an energy source that is regularly discarded is a good one! I'd use it if it was clean (maybe 5-10% mix with regular diesel).

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Carl -

As many people might already know, the idea of running a diesel engine on vegetable oil was demonstrated by Rudolf Diesel at the 1900 Paris World's Fair. He designed the engine to run on vegetable oil, and used peanut oil in the demonstration.

About the only thing that I have significant doubts about is that one needs to purchase and "special additives" to start running a diesel on vegetable oil, but for all I know, "Diesel Secret Energy" might just be worth using. I'm just not ready to bet the grocery money on it.

This article pretty much echos the experiences of a friend of mine who runs his diesel Passat on straight vegetable oil. All that is really required is well-filtered vegetable oil and a separate onboard tank/heating system to thin it before switching over to it. Switch back over to regular diesel shortly before you shut off the engine so it'll start easily, and you're pretty much in business. (Similar to how ocean-going vessels start out on more expensive, more refined fuel and than switch over to cheaper "bunker" oil).

Vegetable oil might even eliminate the lubricity problems associated with low-sulfur diesel fuel, but I'm not sure about that.

I haven't heard any conclusive evidence that using vegetable oil harms a diesel engine, but I'm open to scientific data on that. And as for why more people, or the trucking industry, aren't doing this, I'd think the main reasons have to do with logistics and economics. Fresh, unused vegetable oil is probably as expensive as diesel, more or less. This pretty much leaves "waste" vegetable oil as the cheapest way to run a diesel engine, and there just isn't enough of it available to make a very big dent in the nation's energy requirements (IMO).

While using vegetable oil in diesel engines presents some challenges, I would hardly call the idea itself a "scam". Especially when compared to the "200 MPG carburetor" (that can actually move a car at highway speeds), or the internal combustion engine that runs on water. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*****

Here's a very good site that really seems to have the ring of truth to it. Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel. They talk specifically about "Diesel Secret Energy" (thumbs down). Its biggest "secret" is Xylol and mothballs, which is no replacement for heating the oil to increase viscosity.

 

[s_harper]

I think the diesel secret stuff is a scam, but Biodiesel (diesel made from veggie oil) is the real deal. I use it in my $40,000 Ford diesel, and it works just fine. I believe the commercial producers of Biodiesel use virgin, or unused, oils, but, if done right, used veggie oil can very easily be used either straight (filtered) or converted to Biodiesel.

The difference between straight veggie oil and Biodiesel is in a fairly precise chemical reaction to get rid of water, glycerin, and any other contaminants in the veggie oil. You can find a wealth of information on making it yourself out of used (free) veggie oil. I believe the cost of the whole process averages less than $1 per gallon using free, used veggie oil. Look here for a lot of reading on the subject.

Also, I frequent a diesel enthusiast web site, Diesel Stop , that has a lot of valuable information on diesels in general but also using Biodiesel.

Good luck.

Spence

 

[Bates]

Brewing your own backyard fuel grease is a scam unless you have laboratory grade equipment to work with. You might be able to simply dump some fryer grease into the fuel tank of an older Diesel with mechanical fuel injection and have it work for a while, but unless the grease is ABSOLUTELY free of moisture and other nasties, it will eventually cause trouble.

Common rail/Piezo injectors are the future of Diesel engines.
Piezo injectors have thin crystal wafers in them that respond to various voltage and current pulses. Fuel viscosity and purity are absolutely critical for this type of injection system.
French fry grease is certainly not an acceptable fuel for these new systems.

Commercially available BioDiesel is a fine. Backyard homebrewing is asking for trouble.

Like I said, If there was a cheap, risk free answer, the trucking industry would be using it. I'm sure they'd rather be paying $1 per gallon instead of $3 per gallon.

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Nothing is absolutely free of moisture and contaminants, but I know of many people who get excellent results filtering and using waste vegetable oil.

As to why the trucking industry (and other end users) might not be using very much vegetable oil for fuel (Straight Vegetable Oil and Waste Vegetable Oil, as opposed to BioDiesel), I think it has less to do with the viability of the idea than with the current state of the production, distribution, price, and availability of "fresh" and "waste" vegetable oil. In short, the demand is there but an abundant, cost-efficient (so far) supply doesn't seem to be. Running a vehicle on WVO today, where you pretty much have to make it yourself, seems a lot like heating your house with wood. Sure it's cheap, but it's also a pain in the butt.

I agree that you very likely cannot expect to be able to run even properly filtered waste vegetable oil in any modern fuel injection system and have no problems, but it seems that many people have been doing it in many different types of diesel engines with good (and cheap) results.

Filtering waste vegetable oil is relatively straightforward (a lot easier than making biodiesel), and again, the inventor of the diesel engine designed it to run on vegetable oil. I'd hate to see the idea dismissed based on obstacles that are relatively easy to overcome. Easier, anyway, than finding petroleum that's no longer there.

I still don't see how the agricultural industry will be able to feed a projected 9 billion people plus grow enough biomass to make a significant impact on the world's energy needs, but that's another story altogether I guess.

John

 

[s_harper]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Brewing your own backyard fuel grease is a scam unless you have laboratory grade equipment to work with. You might be able to simply dump some fryer grease into the fuel tank of an older Diesel with mechanical fuel injection and have it work for a while, but unless the grease is ABSOLUTELY free of moisture and other nasties, it will eventually cause trouble.

Common rail/Piezo injectors are the future of Diesel engines.
Piezo injectors have thin crystal wafers in them that respond to various voltage and current pulses. Fuel viscosity and purity are absolutely critical for this type of injection system.
French fry grease is certainly not an acceptable fuel for these new systems.

Commercially available BioDiesel is a fine. Backyard homebrewing is asking for trouble.

Like I said, If there was a cheap, risk free answer, the trucking industry would be using it. I'm sure they'd rather be paying $1 per gallon instead of $3 per gallon. )</font>


Why in the world would making your own "backyard" biodiesel be a "scam"? If you didn't read, I said that used grease must be filtered and free from contaminants, like water, or converted to Biodiesel before use - it is even tested ahead of time for quality by most people before they use it. You don't just "brew" up some fryer grease in your back yard and dump the french fry bits in the tank with it. Diesels will run just fine on veggie oil, and other things, I might add. Used veggie oil is free, made by American farmers, is renewable, and recycles something that would be wasted anyway. It is almost a scam to not use it.

CT is correct in why the trucking industry hasn't adopted this. The supply chain is not predictable enough right now to fuel all of their needs with Biodiesel. Do not, however, make the assumption that truckers don't use Biodiesel. They do. Last time I filled up, there was a semi there taking on several hundred gallons of B100 right in front of me. If the cost is competetive, they will use it.

You need to go to the link above and educate yourself before you call homemade Biodiesel or veggie oil a scam. It is actually quite easy to make high quality Biodiesel in your backyard with simple equipment. To each his own.


Spence