Differential Setup Issue

   / Differential Setup Issue #1  

Stumpi

New member
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
15
Location
Cleveland Ohio
Tractor
Ford 1210 Kubota L175
I'm having trouble setting up the front diff on my Ford 1210. I can only get reasonable tooth contact at large backlash settings and the coast (reverse) side is contacting at the toe no matter what I do.

Some background: I just bought the machine 2 months ago with 590 hrs. It is equiped with a Woods 348 mower and it has probably spent its whole life mowing. A few days after getting it home I noticed a lot of gear noise (it was a consistant clattering sound that changed with speed) coming from the front axle as speed over 4 mph with the 4wd disenagaed. It was still present at lower speeds but could be heard over the engine above 4 mph. With the 4wd engaged it was quiet. I mowed with it at 3ish mph for another 10 hrs til I had time to take it apart.

When I did I found the pinion nuts were loose but still had their keeper in place and the pinion bearings were a little gritty but otherwise looked fine. There were some chunks missing out of the outter perimeter of the ring gear, at the top of the teeth (visible in pictures). The ring and pinion gears looked fine otherwise, no disernable wear ridge, faces look good. I renewed the pinion bearings, checked the outter drive units and tried to setup the diff using prussian blue.

I first set the carrier preload according to my I&T manual. Install more shims than needed and assemble the carrier and right and left housings, measure the gap between housings with a feeler gage and reduce shims by that amount. Then I installed the pinion with a few shims and the thrust washer and set the preload roughly to spec. Above 5 teeth on the ring gear were painted with prussian blue and the carrier, axles, carrier shims, and housings installed. A strap was placed on the pinion shaft and by stepping on it load was applied to the pinion shaft. The axles were then rotated a few turns in each direction and the carrier removed to check the pattern.

That last step began about 2pm yesterday. I didn't go to bed til 1am and was right back at it from 9am to 12pm today. I have tried increasing pinion depth, decreasing it to the point of no shims, just the thrust washer. I have tried setting the backlash to spec (4-6 thousandths) and setting it very loose. No matter what I do I cannot get the pattern on the coast side of the teeth to center, it is always toward the toe (inside) of the ring gear. The only way I was able to center it on the drive side was at a very large backlash of around 15-25 thouandths (my dial indicator broke last night). The pattern otherwise drifts toward the toe. Attached below is the pattern of this setup, the best of all attempts. There is a small but equal amount of clatter in both directions now unlike before where there was a lot with the coast side in contact. This is the pattern interpretation I've been using.

So what do you guys think? Am I doing something wrong? Are the ring and pinion trashed? Should I just try it with the large backlash? My intention is to install a plow and push snow with it this winter and I don't want to spend a week mid snow storm with this thing apart again.
IMG_20140803_132929.jpgIMG_20140803_132814.jpgIMG_20140803_132617.jpg
 
Last edited:
   / Differential Setup Issue #3  
My thoughts are the gear set is worn to the point it will never pattern correctly. I would set for the best drive pattern and least (within specs) backlash I can.
When I have set truck gear sets I load the ring gear and rotate the pinion gear. You may not be able to do that.
 
   / Differential Setup Issue
  • Thread Starter
#4  
It's difficult to load at all. There are bevel gears on the splined axle ends and the coupling that goes on the pinion shaft spline is smooth. Like I said I put a strap on the pinion shaft and stepped on it like a band brake. I may have to come up with a different setup.

Yeah I was thinking they're shot but I don't want to admit it. It's very hard to find any front axle parts for this thing. I'm nervous putting it back because my driveway requires lots of reversing to plow. I'll play with it some more this weekend and probably set it up like you said. In the mean time I'll scour the salvage yards for a new gear set.
 
   / Differential Setup Issue #5  
I was thinking from your description there was no good/easy way to load the ring gear and then turn the pinion gear for a pattern.
I'd put it together and hope for the best. It will be noisy, but may hold up. Good luck.
 
   / Differential Setup Issue #6  
Usually I would think the pinion is too shallow. If coast and drive faces are towards the toe, that should indicate a pinion that isn't in far enough. But it sounds like you've tried to increase pinion depth already, so I'd have to agree with Zebrafive regarding it's worn to the point of not getting a proper pattern, and follow his advice for adjusting.
 
   / Differential Setup Issue #7  
Get it as close as you can and let it go. Keep the backlash at .006 if you can. Because it runs slow and IS in a tractor you most likely will not notice the humming noise like you would in something higher speed like a truck or car.

Run a heavier oil like a 140 weight and have fun with it. As long as it's not grinding or crunching run it, you'll be happy.

I believe it won't give you any issues as long as the bearings are in proper preload and good shape.

Good luck, Fred
 
   / Differential Setup Issue
  • Thread Starter
#8  
I appreciate it guys. I think I'll just put it back together the best I can and keep my eyes open for a salvage gear set or junk tractor.
 
   / Differential Setup Issue #9  
I appreciate it guys. I think I'll just put it back together the best I can and keep my eyes open for a salvage gear set or junk tractor.

Just realize that you'll find a donor, and get the spare parts...then you'll never have an issue with the diff :)
 
   / Differential Setup Issue #10  
Just realize that you'll find a donor, and get the spare parts...then you'll never have an issue with the diff :)

Exactly. Setting pinion depth is always a PITA. I've done plenty of them over the years but don'r consider myself an expert. I have made a few tools, mandrels to measure off of also.

But it helps me to remember this: As you increase or decrease the depth of the pinion it changes the rotation (clocking if you will) of the ring gear thus changing how the gears mesh.

I bet it works well when you get her back together.

Fred
 

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