disc mower recomendations????

[wwilson1900]

lely and vermeer are basically the same, right?
kuhn and john deere are the same too???
who makes bellon?
are they OK?
any other that should be considered?
i have heard about ones that you have to tear the whole cutter bar apart to replace one bearing, are these still made?
Which ones, i want to avoid them.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

You can check out NH and Gehl as well. What size and type were you looking for?

 

[HayDR]

The current Kuhn is not the same as the current JD or NH. The NH uses a segmented shaft drive cutterbar. The JD is a segmented oil bath cutterbar gearbox. The Kuhn, Fort & Morra are almost exact. Fort/Morra copied the current Kuhn. They have one oil bath gearbox with replaceable disc spindle pods. If an intermediary gear's bearings were to fail you would have to take the entire cutterbar apart with the Kuhn/Fort design. The Bellon mower I think uses a Comer oil bath cutterbar. The major manufacturers of oil bath cutterbar transmissions are Comer, MBS (Fort), Kuhn, Kverneland, & Krone.
Lely was the first to MFG the shaft drive. The current New Idea/Agco mower uses a modified Lely design to get around the Lely patents. The Vermeer and Lely share the same transmission but different blades and the Vermeer had a Kevlar curtain.The Lely/Vermeer uses EP000 lubrication that has a life of 20 years.
Most all the disc mowers mow close to the same but the shaft drive mowers are fixed very quickly where oil bath mowers take longer and cost more to fix. The Lely/Vermeer mower will mow at 90 degree where the oil bath mowers can not do this because of lubrication issues. The Lely shaft drive system has less moving parts, weighs less and needs 20% HP than any of the oil bath mowers.

 

[cowboydoc]

CCI gave you a good description of most of the models. JD makes their own mower conditioner in Iowa except for the new 730 and 735 mower conditioner which is made in France.

 

[wwilson1900]

I was wanting about a 6 disc 8' cut 3 pt. mower.
The bellon is $2000 cheaper than anything else around here.
Is the lely worth the extra cost?

 

[MFMan]

You might want to check out the 3 point disc mowers from Massey Ferguson (click on the link below). Introduced last year, they are based on the New Idea design that CCI mentioned and feature a segmented bar and shaft design that minimizes cross contamination issues if a failure were to occur and a relatively low maintenenace schedule. There a 5 models to choose from:
- 1306 4 disc 5'6" cut
- 1307 5 disc 6'8" cut
- 1308 6 disc 7'10" cut
- 1309 7 disc 9'2" cut
- 1310 8 disc 10'4" cut

http://www.masseyferguson.agcocorp.com//default.cfm?pid=1.7.50

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Mark, do you have any input on a New Idea 5212. I think NI still makes them but this one is a few years old (the old gray paint scheme). How well did they hold up and what size tractor could pull it. The reason I ask is that my dealer has one but my only machine that would be hooked to it is a TN 65 till next spring when I get a larger machine. Could I run the 5212 if I only cut 9' of the swath? Also, what is the price of one of these things suppose to resemble for a used machine in decent condition. Thanks.

 

[sweettractors]

Today, Our 8 ft model 2060 "Fort" disc mowers branded with the "First Choice" name runs $4495 assembled + shipping--We are approaching 1000 of these units sold and have had no more problems than the NH or Deere consumers have had with thier mowers-Ken Sweet
Sweet Farm Equipment LLC *New Disc Mowers and Hay Tedders*

 

[SteveBenson]

This is probably a dumb question, but I've never used a disc mower before. MF recommends a tractor w/ cab when using a disc mower. Why is this? And is it really neccesary?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Disc mower disc spin extremly fast. The juices from the grass splash pretty good which is why they have shields around the mowers. You also have to be careful in case the blades hit a rock and send the rock or fragments of rock (and possibly blade as well) out of the cutter and towards the tractor. Having a cab will give you added protection from being injured or killed by a stray stone or knife blade.

 

[wwilson1900]

what about the finger conditioners that you can get on some mowers?
are they worth while?
do they take alot of extra power?
what about the weight?

 

[HayDR]

3 point flail conditioners are available but really this adds more weight that most tractors can safely handle. If you want a disc mower conditioner the pull type is best for the USA market.

 

[Phred]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You also have to be careful in case the blades hit a rock and send the rock or fragments of rock (and possibly blade as well) out of the cutter and towards the tractor. )</font>

Been there and done that.
On my vermeer gator the cover is kevlar. It tossed the blade and blade carrier through the cover! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Never found the blade, maybe ended up in a bale.
The carrier was torn up and a bolt was sticking out the side of the cover.
Something hit the side of the cab... but it happened so fast I could not tell what and it did no harm to the cab.

Bottom line is, I am glade I have a cab.

Also check for those rocks when the grass is short!
Even then I keep a hand on the lift lever for the mower.

Fred

 

[JJohn]

I see some good info of several brands mentioned here, but what about Krone?

 

[dancce]

Krone is a top of the line mower. I could list the advantages and benefits compared to others on the market--but since I am a dealer and don't yet advertise on TBN---I will just direct you to the Krone web site.

www.krone-northamerica.com

dancce

 

[HayDR]

Yes Krone is a premium disc mower MFG using an oil bath style cutterbar. I know the USA factory people well and they have a fine organization for dealer support.

 

[fxrupr]

I have just torn down an old New Holland 462 (7'-10" cut) mower. It had dropped a bearing in the gearbox. Now that it's all apart and I can see that someone else had been in there before me. The last time it was rebuilt must have been after a catastrophic failure in the bar. There was evidence of gears and bearings having been gouged into the case and bits and pieces smashed here and there. Several of the disc shaft bearing holders which are only accessed from inside so you have to split the case to get at them, showed signs that bearings had frozen up inside and gone bang, taking metal with them. Also the underside of the bar is severely rusted and I checked carefully for pinholes before proceeding. It's a learning thing. Never park your cutter bar in the dirt for the season!!!!!!

From a design standpoint on the new mowers with the segmented gearboxes that isolate the various sections is a good idea because it may minimize cross contamination. From a practical maintenance standpoint these things are all incredibly complicated bearing eaters. The New Holland maintenance manual says to change the spindle bearings every 1000 acres. Are they kidding?

The designs which allow the spindles to be changed out from on top get my vote but they all need to come up with a more robust drive mechanism which is modular and easy to repair. I wonder if anybody has tried hydraulic motors in the bar. I looked at Krone's design which has the drive train running big gears and the spindles taking power off the side of the main drive gears with smaller gears. That way they get the RPM at the spindle without the high RPM at the idlers. The gears are still all together in the same oil bath. I don't see any of them with oil coolers or filters which seems to be a no brainer given the environment they work in.

The disc mower concept is a terrific one, the execution is a fluster cluck of patent claim jumping and upper management manipulation if you want my opinion. If you are going to spend 5000 to 8000 on a mowing machine shouldn't it either be easy to repair and also last a long time or cheap to replace if it's only going to last 1000 hours. The designs I see today are neither.

 

[slowzuki]

The shaft drive style 5209's are known to be robust. People beat and beat on them and they seem to last and are easy to repair if you do bust a section.

The bar itself is the cooler for the oil. I personally would not own one with fittings or a pump which could empty the bar and burn it up in seconds.

The problem with hydraulic motors is they would take even more fuel that a disc bine to run.

Maybe they could invent one with a set of teeth that move back and forth to snip the grass off... Oh wait, never mind. I don't know what more innovation will happen.

 

[mlauk]

John Deere and Kuhn are the same. If you compare the two, they are identical. I called our local John Deere dealer and he said it is a Kuhn mower just painted green. BTW I just bought a Kuhn GMD800II-HD and love it, of course I'm upgrading from a 12' sickle mower/conditioner.

 

[Dill]

Anyone used the New Holland Discbines? A local dealer has 2 1410 left overs. 8 ft cut, and flail conditioners. They are straight pull, but after looking at some kuhn gyro hitches I think I'm going to stay with a regular drawbar so I can pull them with the trucks. We leave tractors in different fields and shuttle equipment over the road with trucks. Its just faster for the amount of ground we cover.
Also what about the ShockPro hubs? I like the idea of a shear away system, I just noticed that the 1410 and 1411s can be retro fitted with the shock pros.