Drive System Fluid Plus/Hydro-Gear Question?

[wojnaroski]

Beating the same old horse again.

Do all Hydro-gear transmissions use the same fluid? If so, has anyone priced fluid from other sources? How can I be sure that it is the same fluid as the cc brand?

I emailed Hydro-gear, still waiting to hear.

Eagerly awaiting any info. Thanks, Alan

 

[wojnaroski]

My follow up with Shell about the TTF-SB fluid goes as follows:

<font color="blue"> </font> Lawn and garden equipment using Hydro-Gear Corporation gearboxes and
transaxles. This would probably include at least some models from
Scotts, Poulan, MTD and likely others (for example, Ariens, Bolens, etc.).

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Wojnaroski [mailto:alanwojnaroski@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:06 PM
To: askshell GSUSI-GSMF/5
Subject: RE: TTF-SB


Could you please tell me which manufacturers use this
product so that I may try to obtain the best pricing?

Thank you for your time and effort.

--- askshell GSUSI-GSMF/5 <AskShell@Shell.com> wrote:

> Dear Mr. Wojnaroski,
> Unfortunately, the TTF-SB product was made
> exclusively for some equipment manufacturers and
> Shell does not market the product commercially. If
> you have equipment that is calling for the TTF-SB,
> the original equipment manufacturer would be your
> source for this product.
>
> Thank you for your inquiry and interest in Shell
> lubricants!
>
> Sincerely,
> Richard Bahnke
> http://www.shell-lubricants.com
>
>
>
> Below is the result of your feedback form. It was
> submitted by
> Alan Wojnaroski (alanwojnaroski@yahoo.com) on
> Monday, January 02, 2006 at
> 21:44:09


I have had no luck in getting anywhere with any of the other manufacturers as yet.

Alan

 

[JTKub]

Yep. I went thru the same exact thing about a year ago. HG gave me the same line. I emailed Shell. They sent me a spec sheet for the Shell TTF-SB. I spent a ton of time trying to match the specs up with an off the shelf oil and was unsuccessful. HG and Shell were excellent & super easy to deal with, but neither one wants to put themselves at risk giving an aftermarket recommendation. I can totally understand that. The newer CC HG drives are basically off the shelf units. All HG's that I am aware use motor oil in the 40wt range. Typically 15w-40. Shell & HG were so cool to deal with that I don't mind spending the extra for the CC stuff. You rarely have to change it anyway.

Joel

 

[JTKub]

Wojo, here's the post, she's a loooong one: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Board/cubcadet/Number/679040/page/0/view//sb/5/fpart/1/vc/1/o/all

G/luck
Joel

 

[wojnaroski]

Thanks for the reply.

Yep, saw that. How about Hy-Gard pt# TY6354 from John Deere? Seems to meet all the same criteria. About $14 a gallon.

I agree, you do not have to change often, it's just that I am stubborn and would like a less costly alternative. Also, I do use my machine hard and do not like to wait for a suggested maintenance schedule. Oil should be a cheap maintenance item.

Thanks, Alan

 

[JTKub]

Alan, I dunno how the specs line up between the cub stuff and the JD stuff, but I bet it would work just fine. There is nothing magical about the HG drive and simple rear diff our 2500's have. I also *think* a good synthetic 5w-40 or 15w-40 would work perfectly too (Shell Rotella-T would be my choice). Again, just a theory!! I'm not gonna change until way beyond my warranty. Even so, I only clock about 40-50hrs/yr, so trans oil changes dont happen too often. I dumped the whole thing at 10hrs last year and wont do a complete dump and refill for a few more years yet.

Joel

 

[wojnaroski]

Joel,

I have the 5254 now and work it hard. Not abuse, just hard. I do a lot of pulling and work with a 5' box scraper. Have loged about 60 hours in the last year. Just out of the one year warranty this month. Looked at the oil and not happy with the looks. Again, some would say looks mean nothing, but oil should be cheap and changed often (according to me). Looks black with grey streaks in it, dealer says probably has water in it from condensation. Changed the filters the other day, least I could do.

Alan

 

[ducati996]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Joel,

I have the 5254 now and work it hard. Not abuse, just hard. I do a lot of pulling and work with a 5' box scraper. Have loged about 60 hours in the last year. Just out of the one year warranty this month. Looked at the oil and not happy with the looks. Again, some would say looks mean nothing, but oil should be cheap and changed often (according to me). Looks black with grey streaks in it, dealer says probably has water in it from condensation. Changed the filters the other day, least I could do.

Alan )</font>

That dosent sound right - i would change it...I have seen 5000 series machines with a lot more hours, and basically looks new (clean and clear).....IMO

 

[JTKub]

I agree. That oil shouldn't look like that with that low of hours. Milky/grey would indicate water contamination. My 2544 is a totally different machine, but the drive system fluid plus looks as clear as cooking oil @ 50hrs.

Joel

 

[wojnaroski]

According to the manual there is 20 quarts of oil in the trans. Can you imagine the cost at $9 a quart? Would not want to replace every year at that price. Still checking on an alternative to CCDSFP.

Will let everyone know when I have exhaused every resource.

Thanks, Alan

 

[ducati996]

I would go as far to say you dont have a choice - your oil sounds contaminated. I would find out why as well...do you leave it outside? do you use a powerwasher? water is getting it somewhere....

 

[wojnaroski]

Until recently my tractor has been stored covered under my back deck. Recently purchased a building to store it in. I do not use a presure washer. I have on occasion hosed the unit down from top to bottom with a garden hose. Can't imagine water being forced into the unit, and always blow off all excess water when done. Still checking on the John Deere oil as a cost effective replacement.

Thanks, Alan

 

[wojnaroski]

HERE IT IS!

Contacted Hydro-Gear, they said the trans. was not theirs.

Called Cub service. They said they have always made the 5000 series trans. themselves! News to me.

The good news is, the tech said that any quality 10w40 oil would be sufficient.

What do you all think about that?

Alan

 

[wojnaroski]

Follow-up.

In all fairness to Cub and everyone else here is some additional information I have just received.

I have had a telephone conversation with Gamble. He contacted Cub and was told that you can indead run 10w40 but that Cub does not believe that there is sufficient lubrication. Cub's position is to still use their Drive System Fluid Plus.

Choose for yourself, but at least I have given you the facts directly from Cub.

Alan

 

[CubTech]

The decision to use Cub Cadet Drive System Fluid Plus is because Hydro-Gear will only warranty unit's that use it.

CCDrive System fluid has more additives and protectants in it than anything else.

 

[wojnaroski]

Here is my final word on the subject.

Remember this info pertains to 5000 series units only. I did not look into any other units.

I just spent a pleasant 30 minutes on the phone with a tech support expert at Hydo-Gear. He was very informed and helpful. I am very greatfull for his time and help.

What Hydo-Gear looks for is a sustained viscosity of 55 minimum. His recomendation is to use 20w50 standard Mobile oil. If you want to pay extra then use the 15w50 synthetic Mobile 1. If units leave their factory with fluid in them, it is the standard Mobile fluid. Others may add additives but they are not necessary, according to him. The recomendation of Mobile is based on technical data. Shell TTF-SB oil was compared to the Mobile oil in our conversation. The Shell oil had some additives for slickness, not necessary in his opinion.

The oil should be changed every 200 hours. Not uncommon to have to initially change sooner. No matter how clean they try to be in the manufacturing process, sometimes dirt is still in the unit. The dark grey color comes from the oil circulating in an aluminum unit, not a cause for concern. It will eventually change to black. None of this is supposed to change the viscosity, which directly affects performance.

On the subject of oil filers. He recommend that you stay with the oem filters. Or at least be extremely careful when xref. They do not xref any oil filters.

I can not justify paying at least $9 a quart for oil.

I will be changing the oil using 20w50 mobil and using oem filters from Cub.

Hope this clears up some questioning minds out there. I am persistent, if nothing else.

Alan

 

[ZHOT1]

I replaced the hrdro fluid and filter for my HDS2135 Cub Cadet. I used Drive System Fluid Plus part # 737-3120 to the full mark. I started the mower and let it warm up some. I then backed the mower up about six feet ,it then quit moving. It will not move either forward or back. My question is this the wrong fluid, it does not match the number in my manual, but my mower does not come up on the search on the Cub Cadet webpage, so I thought they might have changed the # on the oil since my mower was built. Changing the filter and fluid are the only things different and it worked fine before. I bought the mower used and do not know the year it was manufactured. The #under the seat is 1C189G30084 Any help would be appreciated.

 

[wojnaroski]

The machine was mfg on January, 18, 1999. This is according to the Cub system of numbering. This is assuming it is only a couple of years old. If it is older than that than the year is 89. Not an expert on hydo oil, but there is an oil used before the new drive system fluid plus oil. Best to contact a dealer or send Gamble a private message, he would definately know.

Good luck, Alan

 

[JTKub]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I replaced the hrdro fluid and filter for my HDS2135 Cub Cadet. I used Drive System Fluid Plus part # 737-3120 to the full mark. I started the mower and let it warm up some. I then backed the mower up about six feet ,it then quit moving. It will not move either forward or back. .. )</font>

I'd make sure your hydro bypass lever isnt engaged or stuck.

Joel

 

[wojnaroski]

My local Wal-Mart just remodeled. Picked up 21 quarts of Mobile 1 15w50 full synthetic at $2.50 a quart! Not sure but they probably still made money.

Alan