Dry lands become Wet land of no return?

[Henro]

In another thread, btolle posted the following link regarding wetlands:

EPA wetland link...

Now I don't really care, but I wonder, when I made my pond, which is not THAT large at all, but is about 50 x 80 feet, did I make a wetland? It is spring fed and holds water to the top all year around. Even supports some blue herron and king fishers...

The pond is an asset and we love it and love looking at it, and our three geese love it, so it will not be drained or anything, but I am wondering, did we put ourselves in a position that we could not fill it if we wanted to?

It wasn't a wet land to begin with...but is sure might be now. The pond has been there about 15 years.

I don't really care if the answer is yes, or no, as we like the pond and don't intend to turn it back into dry land. I think the question even goes beyond our simple place. If one were to do something to make a dry place wet, would he run the risk after a bit of time of reaching a point of no return?

Just curious more than anything. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Junkman]

My neighbor dug a pond and it doesn't hold water for very long. It fills by the springtime, but by July, it is nothing but a small green pool of algae. By mid July, even that is gone. If it wasn't so big, I am sure he would fill it in. He has had the home on the market, but on one would consider this house since there is a huge hole in the back yard that is nothing more than a mosquito trap most of the time. Some ideas just don't work out.

 

[SPIKER]

while I'm no epa expert, I would think that the pond was man made therefor it is not an WETLAND but simply a pond. a wet land is more of a marsh, swamp or river vally which floods several times a year. I'm sure some would say yes, but I'm pretty sure that even being spring fed does not make any differance in this. but this is just my 2 cents worth...

As for that swampy hole JUNKMAN knows of they can line it with pond lnier and it will hold awter, a different approach is to use clay and make a clay liner in the hole... most ponds that don't hold water have sand/gravel bottom or have hit bedrock/slate rock which drains off the water. usually rain alone will not keep a hole in the ground full with out having some sort of run off or spring to keep water running into it as simple evaporation will draw away the water faster than rain will fill it... one day I hope to build my dam and have a rather nice deep pond of 3~5 acres... topographacally I have the layout problem is I need a dam to cross to get to the back side and to hold back the water.... I'll have to get approval for this and egt core of engineers involved I'm sure as the runnoff if a breakage happened would be a disaster. they may even build it for me if I wanted to call it a watershed and let public in. I do not know if there is a time limit to this or not? I did look up it and was told yes they still do it but only if you let public on free, that changed my mind then as I didn't want people trapsing around MY pond /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

MarKM


Mark M

 

[PhilNH5]

Henro and Mark,
Man made ponds can be classified and therefore protected. At least in MA. My company is building a new facility. We needed all sorts of permits and inspections to be sure we were protecting the designated wetland area.

The kicker is the wetland area is the man made required drainage pond that that was built years ago when they first developed the area!!!

Phil

 

[Youare]

Every state has different definations as to what constitutes a "wetland". In New Hampshire the type of trees and vegatation which are found growing in an area is enough to classify it as a wetland even though no standing water can be found. There are areas that have vernal pools, standing water only part of the year that fall under wetland regulations.

I think wetlands should be protected from being filled in just because someone wants to build on that piece of land. There are many regulations and restrictions for those who want to harvest trees off a wetland area in New Hampshire, some are too restrictive. Crossing a wetland with a piece of equipment is difficult to do legally when logging.

Henro, if there was enough of a spring or wet spot to make you want to start a pond where you did it was probably a wetland at least by New Hampshire standards. I think your
pond is a great enhancement to the aquatic dependant species in your area and it affords you some level of enjoymnet and comfort. Sounds like every one and every thing wins.

Randy

 

[dummy]

OK, here's one to throw you a curve. In some states, any body of standing water becomes state controlled (not maintained) property. Check your local rules too. EPA guidelines are supposed to be watch dogs for the US Army corps of engineers who are supposed to be watch dogs for the states who are supposed to be watch dogs for the local government. Sure seems the other way around though.

 

[btolle]

Wetlands are a complicated subject. There are numerous problems, not the least of which is that the various state and federal agencies do not always agree with each other.

There was an instance a few years ago where a developer wanted to build a small shallow lake as part of a property development. It was in Maryland or Wisconsin or somewhere up in the NE.

He worked with all the state agencies, fish and game commission, state water folks, etc. and they all approved his plans.

He built the lake at a cost of (again from memory) something like $175K. The migrating geese used it as a stopover on their flights and folks enjoyed seeing them.

A year or so later the EPA came along and told him he had to fill it in or be fined heavily because it was a source of pollution.

The pollution? Goose poop!

I read it in Forbes magazine several years ago. I am not sure how it turned out but it was in court at the time.

A pond that holds water all year is "probably" not considered a wetland but a pond that dries up part of the year would "probably" be considered a wetland.

As I stated before, it depends on the individual EPA inspector who happens to look at it.

You can thank the tree huggers, and in particular the Sierra Club, for a lot of this mess. While I consider myself an environmentally conscious person some of these folks go to the extremes and consider your rights as a property as secondary to their agenda. The time has passed when you could buy a piece of land and freely do what you wanted with it.

Personally, I would go to great lengths to keep from getting any government agency involved in my personal business.

If you want to read another story about how far out of whack the EPA can get look at this article about how they banned pepper spray when used as a defense against attacking bears in Alaska back in 1993 which say in part:

"But because of an irrational ruling by the EPA that red pepper spray is really a pesticide under the terms of the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act--a chemical that has not yet been properly licensed for bear control--all of the sprays now must be pulled from the shelves of the sporting goods stores in Alaska."

As the old saying goes, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you out". Yeah, right.

Bill Tolle

 

[ByronBob]

My yard in the front is a low point. When it rains I get a pond of water there. It takes weeks to have the water go away. This time of year it just sits there because it's raining all the time.
I'm digging into the area to make it deeper so the water has a place to accumulate instead of flooding a big portion of my yard. Renting a backhoe when it dries up to speed up the process.
My neighbor next door has a pond he just dug and the water stays in there all year long. Lots of clay here. I tried asking what the requirement was for this type of thing and nobody could answer me either way. I took pictures of the area to show that untouched it holds water. If I dig deeper and it dries up I don't mind. The word pond is never coming out of my mouth on this one.

 

[DocHeb]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If one were to do something to make a dry place wet, would he run the risk after a bit of time of reaching a point of no return? )</font>

In our township, and probably in the rest of Michigan, this can happen. In our subdivision (developed in 1990), the lowest area of the sub was designed to be the retention basin for the street drains. It happened to be forested.

After several years of higher water levels, all the trees died. Now the ones on the margins are starting to fall over, and some have landed on houses and playstructures. Our homeowner's association contacted the township and requested permission to cut the trees down. We were denied that request since the area is a "wetlands and nature area", and trees (even dead ones) cannot be cut.

All you need is for cattails to grow and you're in trouble

 

[EddieWalker]

Hey Henro,

I follow all of your posts due to the enjoyment I get from your questions and the quality of work you do on projects.

I've seen photos of your pond, but not lately......

The geese are a suprise and I'm curious what you have and how you take care of them. I'm leaning towards Rueon Ducks myself, but predators are a concern. I built an island in my pond and plan of fencing the area to protect them, but it's still in the idea stage.

Pictures of the geese in your pond would be fun to see also.

Eddie Walker