Electrical Problem with 425

[tlb]

Does anyone have a schematic for a 2002 425? Tractor ran fine last week. Today, it would not turn over or even engage the starter solenoid. Lights work fine. I can hear the PTO engage when I flip the PTO switch.

When I turn the key I hear a click but it is not the starter solenoid. Oil level is OK also. I checked two fuses that I found, a 10amp plug-in type (red) and a 30amp cylindrical type fuse going to the starter. Continuity was OK on each fuse, however both have cracks in the cases. Any ideas?

Thanks,
-Tim

 

[BobRip]

Does anyone have a schematic for a 2002 425? Tractor ran fine last week. Today, it would not turn over or even engage the starter solenoid. Lights work fine. I can hear the PTO engage when I flip the PTO switch.

When I turn the key I hear a click but it is not the starter solenoid. Oil level is OK also. I checked two fuses that I found, a 10amp plug-in type (red) and a 30amp cylindrical type fuse going to the starter. Continuity was OK on each fuse, however both have cracks in the cases. Any ideas?

Thanks,
-Tim

Is the PTO switch off? It disables starting when on.

Do the headlights dim when you try to start. If they dim a whole lot (or go out) and then recover quickly when you turn the key away from start, then you probably have a loose connection at or near the batteries.

If the headlights dim when you try to start and then recover slowly, then the battery is weak. If you can jump start it, then most likely the battery is bad. The battery is 5 years old, right? That is a good life for a battery. It may be time to replace.

I have a schematic for the 422 from 2000.

 

[J_J]

Does anyone have a schematic for a 2002 425? Tractor ran fine last week. Today, it would not turn over or even engage the starter solenoid. Lights work fine. I can hear the PTO engage when I flip the PTO switch.

When I turn the key I hear a click but it is not the starter solenoid. Oil level is OK also. I checked two fuses that I found, a 10amp plug-in type (red) and a 30amp cylindrical type fuse going to the starter. Continuity was OK on each fuse, however both have cracks in the cases. Any ideas?

Thanks,
-Tim

Take a jumper cable, and go from the battery to the 12v lug on the starter, and if it turns the starter, the solenoid is probably bad. I had a similar problem on a 25 hp Kohler engine. You could hear the solenoid click, but not enough energy to pull the solenoid. Switched out the solenoid and fixed everything. Also check out all the grounding points, and battery terminals.

 

[tlb]

BobRip,
The lights dim when the key is turned all the way and instantly go back to full when the key is turned to off. The PTO is off. The battery is about 6 months old.

I replaced the 2 fuses but no difference. Will check battery connection and if that does not work, try JJ's suggestion.

-Tim

 

[tlb]

OK, I checked the lights again. When the key is switched fully-on the lights go completely off and there is a faint click coming from either the starter solenoid or the PTO solenoid (PTO switch is off). The lights come back on instantly when the key is switched to the partially-on position.

I connected my truck battery to the 425 battery with the truck idling. Repeated the above procedure and got the same results. Check jumper cable by briefly shorting + to - and got the arc so cables seem ok.

Next, connected my truck battery, with the truck idling, to the 425 starter solenoid terminals. Nothing happened. Tried key if off and on positions. Next, connected 425 battery directly to starter solenoid with the same results as above.

Questions:
Would a bad PTO switch cause symptoms like this?
Would a bad starter solenoid cause symptoms like this?

Thanks for any help.
-Tim

 

[KMA]

I believe JJ's suggestion was to connect the 425's battery directly to the starter. Your description suggests you are connecting the battery to the starter solenoid. By going directly to the starter itself, you take the solenoid (and pretty much everthing else) out of the picture. For example, if the starter turns with 12V, then there's a good chance the solenoid is bad. I've had them go on two other machines, so it is not uncommon. Luckily, they are a cheap and simple fix.

Good luck!

 

[DHS]

Tim,

Occasionally, I have experienced the same starting problem you have. Sometimes wiggling the wires and cables near the starter allow it to start. I try to stretch and wiggle the wires while turning the key. This of course does not fix the problem. So every six to nine months I must clean the battery connections and about every three years I need to replace both battery cables. This seems to solve my problems for another six to nine months. I believe I have a very small ground somewhere in my system that appears to corrode the battery connections and deteriorate the cables to a point that allows enough current for the lights but not the starter. I installed a disconnect on my battery terminal. However, I do not always take the time to open it when I am through using the PT and with it installed I continue to have battery terminal and cable issues. At one point I was convinced the proble was the starter. I had my original starter that Robin replaced due to starting issues. I installed the old starter and had the same problem.

I also replaced the main fuse holder located by the starter. I am a bit fuzzy on the exact circumstances but I do recall it was corroded and impeded current flow.

Try the easy things first.

Dale

 

[BobRip]

Tim,

Occasionally, I have experienced the same starting problem you have. Sometimes wiggling the wires and cables near the starter allow it to start. I try to stretch and wiggle the wires while turning the key. This of course does not fix the problem. So every six to nine months I must clean the battery connections and about every three years I need to replace both battery cables. This seems to solve my problems for another six to nine months. I believe I have a very small ground somewhere in my system that appears to corrode the battery connections and deteriorate the cables to a point that allows enough current for the lights but not the starter. I installed a disconnect on my battery terminal. However, I do not always take the time to open it when I am through using the PT and with it installed I continue to have battery terminal and cable issues. At one point I was convinced the proble was the starter. I had my original starter that Robin replaced due to starting issues. I installed the old starter and had the same problem.

I also replaced the main fuse holder located by the starter. I am a bit fuzzy on the exact circumstances but I do recall it was corroded and impeded current flow.

Try the easy things first.

Dale

Dale, you might try using a multimeter to check the leakage current from the battery. Disconnect the positive lead to the battery. With all loads turned off put the multimeter between the battery positive terminal and the positive lead. Measure the current. If should be less than 10 mA. Pull fuses and disconnect leads until it disappears. Then trace that circuit that is causing the leakage. I take it that the longer you let then machine sit, the more the battery is run down. This is a good indication that there is leakage. Be careful not to overload the multimeter current range or you will blow a fuse in the meter. If you see no leakage current then this is not your problem.
From your description it sounds more like a loose connection. That can be traced by looking for a voltage drop across wires, switches, fuses, etc. when you have current flowing through it. I hope this helps.

Oh, I have had two fuse holders fail on my 422. The connections came loose inside the holder. Try wiggling the fuse holders, particularly the one on the main wire to the starter and see if the problem goes away or comes back.

 

[J_J]

Kevin, If that is a Kohler engine, 22 or 25hp, the starter solenoid runs about $60.00, and the complete starter runs about $160.00.

 

[tlb]

JJ,
Excuse me for being ignorant, but when I look at the starter/solenoid I see where the solenoid has 2 connections (bolts with nuts). One looks like it is connected to the starter housing (gnd) and the other is connected to a cable with the 30amp fuse.

If there is another wire going to the starter it must be underneath where I cannot see it. It is a tight fit where the starter/solenoid is placed and I cannot get my hand between the tractor body and the engine let alone a jumper cable.

Am I looking in the wrong place?

Thanks,
-Tim