Comparison EPA vs Standard Engine.

[NewTractorOz]

Hi,

I'm considering a Luzhong 454. 45hp. (Similar to Foton 454.) The Engine comes as two models. An EPA approved engine and the standard engine. The EPA approved costs a little more. I'm wondering if anyone can advise me on which way to go. I'm in Australia and we don't have the same regulations as in US and Europe so I have a choice.

Firstly I'd like to know if an EPA engine is cheaper to run. Will i get better performance and power? Is an EPA engine easy to work on? Does it have more things that can clog up or go wrong?

I'd be interest to hear what everyone thinks about EPA approved engines.

 

[zonta223]

Hi Eric
Which dealer are you going to buy your tractor from? or are you going to self import?
With all Chinese tractors the important thing is dealer pre delivery and setup.
If you want to PM me can give you a few horror stories on the Luzhong tractors as delivered by Australian dealers. I was a victim of some of these practices myself and have collected similar stories from other people.
There is a HUGE difference with the quality and robustness between the genuine Foton and the Luzhong.
As an example the 40hp Fotons on sale at the moment come with the genuine English Perkins diesel in them not some copy of a copy engine.
My honest opinion on Luzhong tractors would be think twice before you buy......then think again and forget it.
However if you are still determined to go ahead and buy one then I would get the EPA engine just for one reason. More of these tractors are sold in the USA than anywhere else. these are sold with the EPA engine.This means a better chance of getting parts when you need them.

 

[RonMar]

IMO, nothing the EPA mandates be done to sell an engine in the USA, does anything to improve power output or efficiency. That is, If the trend with trucks in the US, with no significant changes in diesel truck MPG ratings in the past 30 years, but a whole slew of EPA mandated complexity imposed is any indication... Efficiency is not on their agenda, at least not for diesels...

 

[NewTractorOz]

Hi,

I've been considering the thought of self importing. I've been working at it for months , working out what I need, finding a dealer and a customs broker. I'm just on the verge of making a decision only I was unsure about the EPA engine.

The reason I went with Luzhong is because I began looking at these tractors for the reason that they were affordable and seemed better built than the Jinma. One thing just lead to another. I looked at Foton too but I didn't know who to trust. Not all Fotons come with a Perkins engine.

I read a few horror stories too when it comes to Ausi dealers. I guess this is why I decided not to rely on one. I figured that if I take full responsibility and be my own boss on this one then I don't have any one to complain about. Just take it as it comes. If the tractor drops out on me then I figure I'll find a way to fix it. I know someone who's been driving a Luzhong for a few years now and not one tiny thing has gone wrong. I think there are enough Luzhong dealers in Australia to get small parts. I may need to wait a bit. What would be handy is to let me know what part are likely to go on the tractor first. Maybe I can buy a few bits extra and have them shipped at the same time. (I guess someone is going to say, A whole spare tractor!) Thanks for the advice, I'll certainly take it all into consideration. I need to hear the horror stories I guess to help make up my mind.

What I am uncertain of is just what makes an engine an EPA engine tick. Is it better built to better specifications? Does it have more filters and things? What worries me is that it could have more things to go wrong.

 

[NewTractorOz]

IMO, nothing the EPA mandates be done to sell an engine in the USA, does anything to improve power output or efficiency. That is, If the trend with trucks in the US, with no significant changes in diesel truck MPG ratings in the past 30 years, but a whole slew of EPA mandated complexity imposed is any indication... Efficiency is not on their agenda, at least not for diesels...

So please tell. What is it all about? What does an EPA approved engine offer apart from conforming to US customs regulations?

 

[zonta223]

Hi,

I've been considering the thought of self importing. I've been working at it for months , working out what I need, finding a dealer and a customs broker. I'm just on the verge of making a decision only I was unsure about the EPA engine.

.

Hi Eric
If your are going to self import do not use one of the Chinese dealers/suppliers to supply the tractor.....PM me and I will give the the name of the factory rep and you can buy the tractor directly from them. He advised me their 30 and 40hp tractors are a lot better than their 35 and 45hp ones
Will also pass on the details of someone who bought a LZ454 this year....The first one he got he had to have replaced because the engine vibrated that badly it was unusable.....the dealer replaced it with a new one....he tried pulling a 400kg log with it and the gearbox suffered what he said was terminal failure,
Not trying to scare you just give you info on what is happening with the current Luzhong.

Foton do not sell a 45hp tractor in Australia only the 40hp.

I think there are enough Luzhong dealers in Australia to get small parts.
.

Sorry Eric their is one official Luzhong dealer in whole of Australia to supply parts and he is in Western Australia.

regards

 

[90cummins]

I have worked in engineering and owned & driven diesels for years and also have diesel powered equipment such as tractors, chippers, and generators. I also have experience with Chinese clone diesels specifically the Yanmar clones.
I also attempt to stay on top of current technology and also who's buying who and what's made where.
Chinese equipment is a gamble. I had a new 5500watt generator powered by a 10hp Yanmar diesel clone. At 41 hours the camshaft bearing failed. On this particular engine the camshaft rides in a ball bearing and needle bearing. The cause of the failure was a soft camshaft. The bearing journals were not hardened and the cam journal failed that ran in the needle bearing this also caused other component damage due to contamination. It took me over 2 years to find Chinese replacement parts and get it operating again.
Having had the engine apart and seeing the poor workmanship I would never ever go the Chinese route again and that was a simple small generator.
Imagine the possibilities for grief to fall upon you if you purchase a Chinese tractor which is much more complicated.

Also in the news, Perkins engine company was in an agreement to produce licensed Perkins diesel engines in china.
Currently Perkins is attempting to legally stop them from continuing production because they refuse to build the engines to Perkins quality standards and to prohibit them from using the Perkins name or trademark on any products manufactured.
The Chinese will agree to any and all conditions to lure American and European manufacturing to their country and once they get the technology they do as they dam well please. They steal, they copy, they cheapen!!
If you look at Northern Tools line-up of tractors you will notice that the larger ones are powered Lovol Perkins Tianjing engines.
I think you would be better off to buy a used name brand tractor with dealer support.
I'm not saying Northern Tools particular tractors are poor I'm just stating some facts!
As far as EPA versus non EPA not a clue!!!

Sorry for the rant Chinese products are a sore spot with me.

My 2cents
Tim

 

[greg_g]

So please tell. What is it all about? What does an EPA approved engine offer apart from conforming to US customs regulations?
Eric.

Nothing. I'd personally get the non-EPA engine, and that's from the standpoint that it's simply easier to work on. Runs cooler too I think.

//greg//

 

[Bob Rooks]

I had a new 5500watt generator powered by a 10hp Yanmar diesel clone. At 41 hours the camshaft bearing failed. On this particular engine the camshaft rides in a ball bearing and needle bearing. The cause of the failure was a soft camshaft. The bearing journals were not hardened and the cam journal failed that ran in the needle bearing this also caused other component damage due to contamination. It took me over 2 years to find Chinese replacement parts and get it operating again.

TWO YEARS?? Why didn't you just replace the whole engine for $600.00, fresh warranty and all and be done with it Amazon.com: 10 Hp Diesel Engine Electric Start Plus Recoil Start: Home Improvement. Small two pole 5.5 kW generators that run at 3,600 r/m are throw-away units anyway.
It should be noted that Chinese manufacturers will build just about anything you want, and any way you want it. I've seen high-spec machines and components come from China, all very good. It all depends on your supervisory role and willingness to adopt to new ways of doing business.
Caterpillar will be doing a LOT of business in China in the coming years.

http://www.uk.cat.com/cda/files/2258809/7/062810+Caterpillar+to+Increase+Excavator+Production+in+China.pdf

As for EPA engines vs. non-EPA engines of the same family, I don't know much about the Chinese engines in that regard even though I own one, but the domestic small diesel propulsion market (under 1,000 HP) has undergone dramatic changes since Tier ll regulations came into effect. Basically what you will see in most cases are different injectors, metallurgical and design changes in pistons, cam timing, combustion chamber design changes, and exhaust gas recirculating (EGR) components to name just a few. In many cases they are the same engine with updated components. Cleaner burning and more efficient engines come at a price, a trade-off. Example: If one engine developed 5,000 HP prior to EPA implementation and only 4,000 HP (in theory) afterward then a 6,000 HP engine would produce 5,000 HP.

 

[erj]

I have worked in engineering and owned & driven diesels for years and also have diesel powered equipment such as tractors, chippers, and generators. I also have experience with Chinese clone diesels specifically the Yanmar clones.
I also attempt to stay on top of current technology and also who's buying who and what's made where.
Chinese equipment is a gamble. I had a new 5500watt generator powered by a 10hp Yanmar diesel clone. At 41 hours the camshaft bearing failed. On this particular engine the camshaft rides in a ball bearing and needle bearing. The cause of the failure was a soft camshaft. The bearing journals were not hardened and the cam journal failed that ran in the needle bearing this also caused other component damage due to contamination. It took me over 2 years to find Chinese replacement parts and get it operating again.
Having had the engine apart and seeing the poor workmanship I would never ever go the Chinese route again and that was a simple small generator.
Imagine the possibilities for grief to fall upon you if you purchase a Chinese tractor which is much more complicated.

Also in the news, Perkins engine company was in an agreement to produce licensed Perkins diesel engines in china.
Currently Perkins is attempting to legally stop them from continuing production because they refuse to build the engines to Perkins quality standards and to prohibit them from using the Perkins name or trademark on any products manufactured.
The Chinese will agree to any and all conditions to lure American and European manufacturing to their country and once they get the technology they do as they dam well please. They steal, they copy, they cheapen!!
If you look at Northern Tools line-up of tractors you will notice that the larger ones are powered Lovol Perkins Tianjing engines.
I think you would be better off to buy a used name brand tractor with dealer support.
I'm not saying Northern Tools particular tractors are poor I'm just stating some facts!
As far as EPA versus non EPA not a clue!!!

Sorry for the rant Chinese products are a sore spot with me.

My 2cents
Tim

After reading this post I had to recheck the URL on my web page. I thought that the computer messed up and I was no longer on the site for helping others with Chinese tractors.
RonJ