Estate vultures

[dmccarty]

We have been getting offers to buy our land for years now. A family member owns a lot in our area but lives out of state and has been getting the offers as well. I think we both started getting the offers about the same time but the person living out of state seems to get more. Most of the time the offers are letters in the mail but sometimes we get texts and phone calls. We both keep the offers to track who is sending them. We are getting the same letters from the same "companies" with slightly increasing prices.

The offers are around the tax value which I think is well below market prices.

I did talk to a couple of the callers to see what information I could get from them. As expected, they know nothing about the local market, and kept asking how much I wanted for the land, to which I replied, you make an offer. Which they never did.

My take on these people is that they attended one of these get rich quick real estate "classes" held in a hotel. The only people making money are the ones holding the "classes." They don't really know the local market and are trying to buy land from people who know even less of the local market. They spend a fortune on these letters but I suspect they get a deal every once in awhile to keep them going. Certainly, an estate might sell quickly, and too cheaply, just to get things closed out.

I have family that lives in an area of Florida with a large elderly population. There are companies and places to auction off the estate. What else does one do with furniture and house goods that one does not need...

 

[Midniteoyl]

People trying to get the land 'cheap' to resale to developers later. Might be worth it to see if there is a development plan in the works or filed for land around your area.

 

[paulsharvey]

I've know some people to do pretty well off the 1.25 acre- 5 acre lots with an unlivable manufacteres home. They demo the home, and sell the land. It's Not a get rich quick thing, it's a lot of work, being very selective; and maybe $10,000 profit per 'flip'. Now, if you can do 4 of those per year it does add up. The worse the shape, the better. People looking for property generally can't look past what they see; so it's worth more when you give them a semi cleared, clean slate, with no impact fees, and possibly an existing well.

 

[oosik]

For about five years I received MANY letters from real estate agents. They had clients that would buy my land and lake. Wanted to know how much I would ask.

This became a PITA. Because I never responded to their snail mail - they began calling.

So... I did some calculations and came up with, what I thought, was a real wild assed number. Then the ultimate happened. An agent showed up at my door. He walked the entire property and had an aerial photo of the property.

When I told him what I would expect - this was his reply. Well .. "this is a whole lot of money but I know I can get this amount by selling to a person from California. They will upgrade your country driveway - divide the 80 acres into lots - make a handsome profit."

I was not prepared for his response. I was shaken to the core.

This presented two problems. I will NEVER sell this property. When I croak - it passes on to my son and so on. And - if I did sell and the property was subdivided - I would have two VERY angry neighbors. One to the north - other to the south. Most likely, I would have to move to parts UKN. My life would not be worth a plug nickle.

 

[oosik]

For those who may be considering selling their land.

Remember, God is not making any more.

 

[sixdogs]

Just tell callers that things are in a trust and the attorney takes care of it. The only sound you'll hear is a click disconnect.

 

[paulsharvey]

For those who may be considering selling their land.

Remember, God is not making any more.

Yes, but there is also associated holding costs. There are Lots if people who inherit property, that have no real use for it, other than selling it. At the same time, that keeps it in circulation, and the buyer will likely use it. Not an across the board answer for every case.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, I'll kinda run the scenario one day we will be facing:
Mom and her husband have something like 32 acres of woods, and a 3/4/2 1950s home, in NE/NC FLa. Mom has 4 kids; oldest, lives in NC, older sister Central FLa, me, NE/NC FLa, and youngest, central-SC Tenn. Her husband has 2 remaining kids; 1 somewhere in NC Kentucky, and 1 in NC WVa. So, forgetting geography, you also have fiances; and life style; my oldest sister is somewhat stable, and no kids, single; other sister, good fiancé's, 3 kids; me, eh, somewhat ok, but not spare money, and 3 kids; and little brother, 1 kid, so-so fiancé's, frankly, he needs money, he works, but I think every month it's a balancing act to keep the lights on, and mortage paid.

Then his kids; his son is apparently OK financially, no kids, but married, and he's like 55 or so; his daughter, married, 2 kids, pretty sure they have atleast some gov assistance. I'm guessing at this point, he's probably thinking towards building up some retirement

So, if we assume everyone gets 1/6th...

Oldest sister would certainly not have an intrest in buying anyone out, she might not want to cash out at first, but let a few annual tax bills and insurance come in, and she's gonna want out

Other older sister with kids; she probably wouldn't want to cash rest out, but she would be more than happy to keep a status quo, pay her portion of annual taxes/insurance/repairs

Me; I'm by far closest, and I love the property, the house doesn't suite our needs though, and I'm not in a place to cash anyone out. I would probably be willing to pay my % of taxes, insurance, However, me and wife have talked; what I'm not willing to do is be the care taker so others can treat it as a time share.

Little Bro; he is in Tenn, near wife's family, just started a small business, and he needs cash; he may or may not want to cash out, however he can't pay his % on annual bills, and would likely have zero use for it

Oldest step bro; no way he cashes anyone out; doubt he would pay his % annual, heck, why would he, it's like 1200 miles away

Step sister; couldn't cash anyone out, couldn't pay per % even if she wanted too.

Point being; as much as it is a shame; the simple answer, is sell the dang thing, and everyone go separate ways.

 

[ultrarunner]

So, I'll kinda run the scenario one day we will be facing:
Mom and her husband have something like 32 acres of woods, and a 3/4/2 1950s home, in NE/NC FLa. Mom has 4 kids; oldest, lives in NC, older sister Central FLa, me, NE/NC FLa, and youngest, central-SC Tenn. Her husband has 2 remaining kids; 1 somewhere in NC Kentucky, and 1 in NC WVa. So, forgetting geography, you also have fiances; and life style; my oldest sister is somewhat stable, and no kids, single; other sister, good fiancé's, 3 kids; me, eh, somewhat ok, but not spare money, and 3 kids; and little brother, 1 kid, so-so fiancé's, frankly, he needs money, he works, but I think every month it's a balancing act to keep the lights on, and mortage paid.

Then his kids; his son is apparently OK financially, no kids, but married, and he's like 55 or so; his daughter, married, 2 kids, pretty sure they have atleast some gov assistance. I'm guessing at this point, he's probably thinking towards building up some retirement

So, if we assume everyone gets 1/6th...

Oldest sister would certainly not have an intrest in buying anyone out, she might not want to cash out at first, but let a few annual tax bills and insurance come in, and she's gonna want out

Other older sister with kids; she probably wouldn't want to cash rest out, but she would be more than happy to keep a status quo, pay her portion of annual taxes/insurance/repairs

Me; I'm by far closest, and I love the property, the house doesn't suite our needs though, and I'm not in a place to cash anyone out. I would probably be willing to pay my % of taxes, insurance, However, me and wife have talked; what I'm not willing to do is be the care taker so others can treat it as a time share.

Little Bro; he is in Tenn, near wife's family, just started a small business, and he needs cash; he may or may not want to cash out, however he can't pay his % on annual bills, and would likely have zero use for it

Oldest step bro; no way he cashes anyone out; doubt he would pay his % annual, heck, why would he, it's like 1200 miles away

Step sister; couldn't cash anyone out, couldn't pay per % even if she wanted too.

Point being; as much as it is a shame; the simple answer, is sell the dang thing, and everyone go separate ways.

Sad but it’s the Western Way…

I have friends in Germany and Austria with property going back to the 1600’s

It’s more of a sacred Trust and no one wants to be the one that loses it…

 

[Jstpssng]

Point being; as much as it is a shame; the simple answer, is sell the dang thing, and everyone go separate ways

That's the way it is. In the 1600s people came here because land was plentiful and they could do as they wished. They didn't have to wait for the paternal head to die, or need to be the first born son to inherit. When we came of age we went and did our own thing, made money to buy our own land and more or less do as we wished on it.

You do still see family farms handed down through the generations...with men in their 50s waiting for their father to retire or die so that they can take over. Read the book 30 Acres...

Ringuet’s Thirty Acres

Here’s a draft of the Ringuet segment of my paper. Comments? (It comes to 15 pages in WordPerfect.) B. Ringuet’s Thirty Acres From its publication in 1940, Ringuet’s novel Thirty Acres has be…

abitmoredetail.wordpress.com

My family is very similar to yours. My mother lives in the house my paternal grandfather built in 1927, on 31 acres which my ancestors bought after coming over to escape the potato famine. When she is done the property will be sold and likely subdivided... The city has a big bulls eye on it for development. My brother says the house will likely be torn down and he could be right. Yet they are going to pay for it first. Once the check clears they can do what they want.
National and state Park services are doing the same as Ultrarunner mentioned above; preserving land for future generations. While ownership structure may be different than in Europe the logic is the same.

 

[dmccarty]

People trying to get the land 'cheap' to resale to developers later. Might be worth it to see if there is a development plan in the works or filed for land around your area.

There is big development going on in our area but it is not easy. One development was just stopped due to it's location and density. Some of the people wanting to buy land are looking for a steal price wise and hoping the owners don't know the value of the land. Most property owners I know, have an idea of the value of the land, but the buyers are looking for someone they can prey on. Best case, the buyer is just totally clueless about the property and just hoping to get lucky.

We get mail from local companies and from people many, many states away. The local companies certainly have, or should have, more of a clue as to the local market. I have talked to some of them and they seem clueless as to the true value of the land or they are lying. Having said that, some of the land sales that have occurred are NOT in MLS and one has to be reading local news and/or have local contacts to know a sale has taken place much less the selling price. Some of the sales are NOT documented in the online court house records. One will have to physically go to the court house to look up these sale records.

The out of county buyers most likely know there is development happening, big development, and are just throwing a dart to see if it will land on a seller who will sell cheap.

 

[dmccarty]

The wife's family have been entrenched in an area since at least 1900. For some reason, we went digging on the Internet over the weekend and found some interesting things. I found, online at the UNC library, what we would now call, or used to call, the yellow and white pages from the early 1900s. The book cost $4! Which was a huge sum back then. There were some phone number listed, most two and three digits long.

The book noted not only addresses, which could be a bit vague, marital status with the use of Miss, what one did for a living, a phone number which few actually had, and race. The "yellow" pages had advertisements for local companies, including a car dealer, along with their address and phone number. The book, while simple, was really a historical document.

The farm land is being passed down through the generations and is being subdivided as this happens. Almost everyone in the family has moved away, at best hours away, and many are now out of state. Once the oldest generation dies, my wife's generation will sell the property. They have discussed this already but there might be a fight with some of the family who don't want to sell and who have to money to keep up the property. It will be what it will be.

Selling the place will be difficult and one can see so many once grand farm houses rotting away because family has died off and moved off. There is a old family farmer waiting to buy the place. His family has been buying up farm land that has been being split up as the generations pass.

 

[ultrarunner]

Timing can be everything...

I've been task to sell a property that was the family auto sales going back to 1942.

My uncle owns half and adamant not going to sell...

Last week he calls and said sell... he is 90.

Property was appraised 1.1m a few years back and principals and brokers always in touch.

Property now maybe $700k as the Oakland market is very much in the dumps.

Highest and best is housing... 24 units.

Housing builders are losing their shirts with all the new restrictions, minimum wages, materials, theft, insurance, etc.

I briefly thought about making an offer but he wants it on the market thinking it's still very valuable...

Timing is everything.

 

[newbury]

For those who may be considering selling their land.

Remember, God is not making any more.

He is, but it takes a while to cool, ask @sodamo he lives near where more is being made .

Sad but it’s the Western Way…

I have friends in Germany and Austria with property going back to the 1600’s

It’s more of a sacred Trust and no one wants to be the one that loses it…

One of the problems I'm starting to see are all the roads in some areas with many houses along the roads with relatively narrow frontage on the roads (say < 50 yards) and stretching back several hundred yards or more. Narrow strips of property, suitable for firing lanes.

some of the land sales that have occurred are NOT in MLS and one has to be reading local news and/or have local contacts to know a sale has taken place much less the selling price.

I found my place in Mississippi in the local Mississippi paper ONLINE while I was sitting in Alexandria, Va.
This may change in the future but it seems perhaps 90% of the real estate agents I've met did the absolute minimum work and would not be able to hold a real job that required a high school education.

 

[dmccarty]

...

One of the problems I'm starting to see are all the roads in some areas with many houses along the roads with relatively narrow frontage on the roads (say < 50 yards) and stretching back several hundred yards or more. Narrow strips of property, suitable for firing lanes.
...

That is not a new problem/issue in my area. You can see it via the houses in some places, in other places, it only shows up when a lot is flagged. When we were looking to buy land, one parcel was one piece of similar sized lots carved out of a large parcel. I think this was done originally to as the land owner, maybe from a land grant, died and split the land up for the children. The lots were very narrow, maybe 100-200 feet but very long, 1500-2000 feet. It was a crazy subdivision of the larger parcel.

I can't remember when the subdivision was done, but it was old school, by someone with basic drafting skills, maybe the 1940's or 1950's. The parcels were laid out on a large piece of paper and drawn out like I learned to do in drafting class. However, I would have gotten, at best, a C for that work. The way the parcels were carved out made it easy to access by road but the lots were all but unusable accept to build a house.

 

[Jstpssng]

^^^^

They are called "Spaghetti Lots."

13. Spaghetti-lot. "Spaghetti-lot" means a parcel of land with a lot depth to shore frontage ratio greater than 5 to 1. Shore frontage means land abutting a river, stream, brook, coastal wetland or great pond as these features are defined in Title 38, section 480‑B.

 

[EddieWalker]

This morning, I've received 3 phone calls about selling my land. This hasn't happened before. Different voices, different phone numbers, but all have similar messages.

I'm returning your call about your land for sale, please give me a call back.

If this wasn't you, and you have some land, please give me a call back

 

[bdhsfz6]

This morning, I've received 3 phone calls about selling my land. This hasn't happened before. Different voices, different phone numbers, but all have similar messages.

I'm returning your call about your land for sale, please give me a call back.

If this wasn't you, and you have some land, please give me a call back

I get multiple letters and phone calls every week offering to buy my land at less than half it's value.

Here's a link explaining what's going on:

Understanding Unsolicited Offers for Your Land - National Land Realty News

Many landowners receive unsolicited offers on their properties. Here's what to know about how to handle these types of requests.

nationalland.com

 

[dmccarty]

This morning, I've received 3 phone calls about selling my land. This hasn't happened before. Different voices, different phone numbers, but all have similar messages.

I'm returning your call about your land for sale, please give me a call back.

If this wasn't you, and you have some land, please give me a call back

We have gotten some of these calls as well. I had a series of "conversations" with one company and talked to at least two different people. I suspect some of the other phone calls we have gotten were from the same company but with different numbers. The message/script are very similar.

 

[RjCorazza]

Whether by mail or phone, these companies are one very small step from full blown scammers.