Everyone learn from my mistakes

[miltrade]

One of my first projects on my new property was to use a 3-pt tiller on my JD 4200 to till under my lawn, which was a mix of zoysia and weeds in order to plant a new lawn of fescue grass.

I thought I had all my research in order and a good plan. I tilled it under, planted new seed, and laid out haystraw for germination. This was done at just the right time in the fall. As the fall progressed, it appeared the grass was coming up nicely. Well, once winter set in, it went dormant of course. At just the right time, I put down some turfbuilder and crabgrass preventer (I ensured that this was advisable with the Scott's technical reps).

Well, my "lawn" is now a weed garden. All sorts of new and unusual weeds have taken over. There is little hope of me having grass this spring and summer. Additionally, there are huge bare spots, severe compaction (even though I tilled it all up), and major ruts.

Lessons I learned: The best way to plant a new lawn is to use a tractor-mounted sprayer to kill everything with round-up. Then use the tractor rake to remove all of the dead top layer of growth. The tractor rake would also have eliminated the ruts and bumps that are present now. However, you would have to be careful not to get more than an inch below the layer of growth as all I would have done is pulled up dormant weed seeds. Then, you should put down the seed. I should have then worked the seed into the soil by dragging a section of weighted chain link fence around the property. Haystraw would still have been required.

If I had done all this, my lawn would not be a disaster. Don't repeat my mistakes. However, I did also plant wildflower fields a few weeks ago and I applied all the lessons I learned from the lawn. So far it looks like they will be more of a success.

 

[anojones]

I feel your pain. I put in a new lawn last spring, some of it has come together quite well, but a lot has turned to weeds and will probably need a complete re-hab. It's not easy getting the timing right turning an old field into a lawn. If I were to do it again, I'd spray, water until the weeds popped up again and spray again, then prepare the lawn (and hope the weather was just right to get it established). I have a few low spots I need to start filling in with sand. I had a company put in sprinklers and their vibratory plow left mounds everywhere (not to mention the moles!). If it stops raining, I'm gonna weed & feed and see how it goes.

 

[Cord]

Additional lessons:

Plant a mix of seed. After seeding, also plant some annual Rye or wheat. This will provide the cover until the grass can come in. Back drag with a couple of leaf rakes pulled behind you to mix the seed into the top soil. Young grass is very tender and proably should not receive a weed control for a year or two. Do use a starter fertilizer-just not too much or you'll burn the grass. Try to plant as early in spring as possible. Grass needs a huge amount of water that only the spring rains can adequatly provide.

 

[EddieWalker]

How clean was the hay straw?

In Colorado, the outfitters in the back country can only feed their horses hay that has been tested and certified to be free of any other plants. There is actually a tag that goes on every bale of hay they pack in for their stock animals. It's very expensive, but the fines are worse.

The reasoning is that hay is never pure. It's always a mixture of some degree of other plants.

How well do you know your source of hay?

I think you got allot of new plants added to your lawn from the hay you spread over it.

Even if you kill everything on your yard AND sterilize the dirt, you will still get weeds. They travel from the wind and there's no way to stop them from spreading.

I'd work on getting as much of the type of grass you want up, and fighting the weeds with fertalizers designed to kill the unwanted plants. I do this on homes all the time. Water and spread. After a few weeks most of the weeds will be gone and if you do it again, they will all be gone!!!

Eddie

 

[thatguy]

My experience is that the straw is l-o-a-d-e-d with junk.. The last two times I put straw down I ended up with bag cases (2 yrs in a row) of poison ivy/oak...

good luck

b

 

[BruceNorthEast]

miltrade:

My father in law used to tell me (at my old property) that if I just keep mowing the weeds, it'll eventually be lawn...

It does seem that he was basically correct, the weeds don't seem to take to being cut so often but the grass does fine.

Maybe you can rescue yours without resorting to drastic measures, especially if you've got time to let it.

Bruce.

 

[miltrade]

Well, these are good bits of advice, thank you. I was actually considering spraying the whole lawn (2-3 acres) with roundup and starting over again by planting now, but I'm rethinking that in light of some of these posts.

The haystraw I got was from a place called Meadows Farms, which is a chain of garden supply centers here in Virginia. I'm sure it could have been loaded with weed seeds.

Another problem I created was that I put down Scott's turfbuilder with crabgrass preventer. Now, that wasn't bad, but the problem is that I can't aerate and add more seed after I did that. Aeration will negate the crabgrass "barrier" and if I put more seed, it won't germinate because of the components of the Scott's.

I am unable to water the area, have to rely on rain, it's just too large.

EddieWalker, you said "I'd work on getting as much of the type of grass you want up, and fighting the weeds with fertalizers designed to kill the unwanted plants. I do this on homes all the time. Water and spread. After a few weeks most of the weeds will be gone and if you do it again, they will all be gone!!!"

How do you work on getting the grass up, considering my watering limitations? And what fertilizers can I put on a semi-new lawn to control weeds? And more specifically, when?

 

[JimR]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( miltrade:

My father in law used to tell me (at my old property) that if I just keep mowing the weeds, it'll eventually be lawn...

It does seem that he was basically correct, the weeds don't seem to take to being cut so often but the grass does fine.

Maybe you can rescue yours without resorting to drastic measures, especially if you've got time to let it.

Bruce. )</font>

This is true. I have a field that went to weeds. I have been mowing it now for 5 years and it is almost as nice as a lot of lawns I see. I do not fertilize it nor have I added any seed to it. The Dandelions still thrive there each year. But I mow them back as soon as they start to sprout.

 

[EddieWalker]

First on the straw. Most nurseries buy from local suppliers and it's anybodies guess what's in the hay you bought. I've kown guys to just buy qood quality hay and spread it over a bare field and wait for it to start growing.

You can also plug a pasture with realy fresh hay. Just disk it up and spread the hay over it, they roll the hay into the loose soil. But that's bermuda grass mostly and in my area. I don't know if conditions are the same or not.

As to your quesition.

I do several things for grass, but adjust each for conditions. Most of my experience is with homes I've bought and fliped, so it's never been as large an area as your doing. On my place I just disk, through out seed and wait. I'm not in a rush or hurry and know it will happen in time.

For existing lawns and bare spots, I like to take plugs from the areas that have shown good growth and transplant to bald areas. You can use a shovel, or your loader bucket. Just scrape off an area of good grass and dump it on the bad area. Spread and flatten it and give it a good soaking. I have 500 feet of hose if I need it, so anything in that range is good. Hose is cheap, just keep buying more. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The area the grass came from will grow back real fast, or I might through out some more seed there since it's a good growing spot already.

The weed and feed I mentioned is for established grass. You need to let it get going for awhile before you start shocking it with poisons. One good spreading will do wonders at killing off weeds.

For grass, I'm in a souther area. It's region 8 for gardeners. Here we grow bermuda mostly, but St. Augustine is also popular along with centapede. Bahia grows wild, but it's not a nice greass for lawns, just pature for grazing. There's lots of variations of bermuda grass depending on usage, traffic and soil types. Once it gets going, it sends out runners that allow it to spread and take over.

When I plant seed, I mix my bermuda with rye grass. The rye takes off really fast and helps the bermuda get established. Once the bermuda is starting to take off, the rye grass dies off naturally from the heat. Centapede is another good seed to mix in with this as it's a very slow grower and take very little water and looks beautiful when established. Depending on the amount of seed reflects on how long centipede needs to take over, but it will chock out everything else in time. It's not a hay seed because it grows so slowly and stays close to the ground. Very little mowing of centapede. It' the ultimate southern grass!

I'm putting it around my pond and lake so I wont' have to mow the shoreline. It's very expensive, so I wont be buying too much of it, but the results are worth it!!!

I've also found Sams to be the cheapest on bermuda grass seed. Cheaper than the grass wholesaler that we have in Tyler.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[oliver28472]

I usually burn down with roundup twice or three times in September, aerate the heck out of it, broadcast fescue seed then water. I had good luck with that several years ago and the grass in my front yard looks the way you would hope it would and did not use straw. However, I did the same last year in part of my back yard and did not get a good stand. Henbit and other weeds have come by to green up the place. Some spots have fescue and some are still bare. These weeds will have to wait a while longer before I spray. I called Gordon's (they make Trimec, Speedzone & other over the counter pesticides) and was told not to spray the weeds until after I had mowed 3 times. I wanted to spray Trimec. On germination, I have been able to see that the seeds were sprouting in the holes left behind by the aerator.