excessive heat in hydralics, not over loading the system, ideas

BHD · Jun 28, 2017

I set up a winch on the front of the tractor so I can creep it very slowly using a trencher that is three point, or covered to three point,

finally tried out the winch this after noon, even with out a load and just running the drum with out cable the motor was getting warm, was going to put a cable on the drum (had a 100+ length of cable so the idea was to put the cable on the winch and pull the tractor to wind the cable on the drum, slight up hill a rise of of about 2 foot in 100 feet, but by the time I got the cable on, (very slow winch, will re gear it up some in the future), but the steel and motor was so hot it would burn skin,

the pressure going in to the system was never over 500 psi, and most of the time under 200 via gauge,

using a power beyond block on tractor, direct to tractor pressure, shut off valve, quick connect and hose to valve , flow regulator, valve, quick connect, hose, a safety relief valve so limit pressure (tractor 2200 psi) (motor rated for 1500) quick connect, and then the motor and the out of the motor a quick connect, hose to the valve and back to the tractor,

been using the power beyond block on the other tractor for the back hoe for years no heat, , (just added it to this tractor)

any idea why I am building so much heat, like said only about 300 psi in winch system,

CalG · Jun 28, 2017

shut off valves and flow regulators both generate heat as the fluid flows through restriction.

I'm sure the tractor "tank" can take a lot of heat and send it away, is the tractor full? Tank volume should equal or greater than flow in gpm

i.e. 32 gpm might have a 32 gallon tank. Where are you with that?

Tx Jim · Jun 29, 2017

Orbit motors & closed center hyd systems such as the JD has don't get along very well. Orbit motors will cause hyd oil to heat. Does added hyd control valve in photo next tractor hyd controls have a closed center conversion plug & have relief valve fully seated?

BHD · Jun 29, 2017

yes the valve has the closed center plug and the relief valve seated, the tractor is full of oil,

will try swapping the power beyond block, Deere man said the block should be on the opposite side when added to the tractor,, but in the back of my mind I really do not see how that will help, (the heat all most seems to be coming from the block area),

I do have a hydraulic power pack I use on the log splinter, If I would power the winch with it, open center system, and pull the tractor with it, (more complications doing it that way), more equipment, to deal with, but willing to do it if it works,

oldnslo · Jun 29, 2017

The flow control is the heat source. Since this is a pressure compensate pump I suspect the pump pressure is 2250 - 2500 PSI. The motor never saw 500 PSI so the other 2000 PSI drop across the flow control, fittings etc. turned into heat so everything down stream of the flow control gets hot.

BHD · Jun 29, 2017

looks like I am going to go with the hydraulic power pack,

I swapped the power beyond block to the other valve on the tractor, and heated up fast (just as fast as with the other side),

put ends on the hoses, and ran the tractor up by the log splinter to try it and plugged it into the power pack, and ran it for about 18 mins it was warm but not untouchable, one could hold on it to uncomfortably, but no where near as warm as on the tractor hydraulics,

Just for the sake of discussion, is there a better motor choice? than the gerolor type for the closed center hydraulics,

BHD · Jun 30, 2017

I think I solved the problem as much as possible, first the motor is a slow RPM motor or can take a of of oil per min, it is designed for about 15 gallon a min, producing a max Rpm of about 200 rated for 150 RPM,

so first I revered the gears on the sprockets, thus giving some more range in the winch speed, so the motor would not need to run at 100% fluid flow,

second I had my speed (flow control valve) was in backwards, some how I mis read the symbol on the side of the valve, and it was running wide open on the check that is in the control valve,

by reversing the sprockets, got the motor working in the speed range I needed, and getting the the flow reduced,

(from my reading about setting up a 7200 vacuum planter, it appears that one needs to keep the GPM flow for a motor, down into the 4 to 6 GMP range or less, for a 4020 tractor),

when reducing the flow the heat build up was considerably less, I did the reeling in the cable pulling the tractor again and there was some warmth but not objectionable, (I would say the problem under control), when the flow is reduced the heat is reduced considerable,

(most likely changing out the motor to lower flow per revolution would do me better, but I only have about 1000 feet of trenching this time), so about ten uses of the winch, and with setting up and so on I think it will work fine,

On the 4020 the pump is rated at (Total flow:18 gpm ) and only 6 gpm at the hydraulic valves,
the reality of the deal is the tractor was not really designed for running a motor,

thank you, for the input, to my problem, and if for some reason it is needed, I can use the power pack with a little building of a mount for it, but so much easier if I do not need a second hydraulic source,