Farmall® A or C Series? Or, ...?

   / Farmall® A or C Series? Or, ...? #11  
CaseIH and Massey Freguson are Agco companies while New Holland is part of Fiat isn't it?

The Workmaster and 75A both have bias ply tires. I really want radials so, that means either the 75C or PowerStar. There are some loader differences too but, apparently that is a corporate secret for New Holland.
What I see is the 75a/WM gets options added to them to be close to the 75c/PS In cost. So I bought a 75C. Couldn’t find a NH dealer that I could trust within 250miles.
 
   / Farmall® A or C Series? Or, ...?
  • Thread Starter
#12  
The New Holland dealer told me the CaseIH were AGCO. o_O
 
   / Farmall® A or C Series? Or, ...?
  • Thread Starter
#13  
What I see is the 75a/WM gets options added to them to be close to the 75c/PS In cost. So I bought a 75C. Couldn’t find a NH dealer that I could trust within 250miles.
3-cylinder vs. 4-cyclinder engines and tires are really different. The cabs are also much nicer on the 75C/Powerstar.
 
   / Farmall® A or C Series? Or, ...? #14  
Do you have any LS dealers by you ? The MT573 would be in your specs as well. Great lift capacity. I lifted a whole skid of 60# bags off the trailer. I run a 7’ hd tiller fairly easy in hard clay. But overall dealer support is a big thing.
 
   / Farmall® A or C Series? Or, ...? #15  
I'm looking for a ~75Hp 4WD drive tractor with a strong loader. I originally was going to buy a Kubota M5-111 but, that ship sailed away 2 years ago and hasn't been seen since. I am not a fan of the John Deere mega-dealership plan and proprietary software in addition to premium pricing. I had the hots to get a Massey 4707 but, the local dealership closed so, that and AGCO/New Holland emission problems has me looking at CaseIH since there are two pretty strong dealers locally with reasonable pricing and delivery dates (not ~2 years in a configuration I don't want).

What I am having trouble with is understanding the real differences in the CaseIH ~75Hp Farmall A and C tractors. It looks like these are similarly priced when equipped similarly based on what I could glean from their online pricing tool.

I think I want the Case IH 75A or C with the L610/L620 loader and a cab. Both seem to be ~$72K. What are the 'real' differences in these two tractors that I am missing? What is the real cost difference? Which is the better 'work' tractor for me?

Things I need it to do:
  • run a heavy medium duty rotary 'bush hog' mower
  • loader lift heavy loads
    • how many bags of concrete on a pallet
    • how high for a heavy round bale
    • will an 84" bucket of wet sand unweight the rear of the tractor
    • will it run a 72" tiller economically (540E PTO)
    • ...
While I am pretty focused on CaseIH, I am willing to consider other brands. As mentioned, JD, Kubota, and New Holland are all local to me. Mahindra is an option too but, I know nothing about their bigger tractors. I do not want a Kioti. I would consider a gently used tractor but, right now they cost more than new!

I don't think I need to buy one this calendar year for a tax right off so, I have flexibility on the delivery date assuming it is ~6 months and not 2 years or more! The configurations need to be reasonable as well but, CaseIH doesn't seem to have the issues Kubota did and still does.

TIA,
Sid

AGCO currently has nothing to do with New Holland. New Holland (as well as Case Construction, CaseIH, and Steyr) is currently a division of CNH Industrial, which is a company mainly owned by a private equity firm. About the only (prior) connection between AGCO and New Holland is that one of New Holland's former owners, FIAT, had some arrangements with Allis-Chalmers and Hesston, which AGCO now owns.

Somebody mentioned LS tractors above. LS, which is an LG subsidiary, makes all of CNH's compact tractors for them (e.g. the Boomer and under-50 HP Workmaster line, and the CaseIH equivalents) but CNH makes their own utility and rowcrop tractors.

The 75C is a larger, fancier tractor that would be a competitor to the Deere 5075M while the 75A is a little smaller and less deluxe, and would be a competitor to the Deere 5075E. The local dealerships do not generally stock the Powerstar 75/Farmall 75C but they do stock the Workmaster 75/Farmall 75A and the more basic Workmaster 70/Farmall 70A which is an open station only machine. To be fair, the Deere dealership stocks a lot of 5075Es but I've seen exactly two 5Ms, there isn't much of a market for the "deluxe" 75 HP machines here as they are generally "second tractors" for feeding bales and pulling rakes and such.

I comparison shopped the Kubota M7060, NH Workmaster 70/75, CaseIH 70A/75A, and the Deere 5075E a couple of years ago when looking for a ~75 HP utility tractor. I didn't look at the Massey-Fergusons due to the very limited dealer support. The Deere was in line with the Workmaster 75/Farmall 75A in terms of weight and features, similar in features but stouter than the Kubota, and a stouter, little bit nicer tractor than the Workmaster 70/Farmall 70A. The Deere dealership had plenty of 5075Es to sell and made me a much better deal on one than any of the others would, so my tractor is green.
 
   / Farmall® A or C Series? Or, ...? #16  
   / Farmall® A or C Series? Or, ...? #17  
Latest info I read is, NH AND CIH are actually owned by Fiat, of course AGCO is AGCO and is a USA company...

SR
 
   / Farmall® A or C Series? Or, ...? #18  
Latest info I read is, NH AND CIH are actually owned by Fiat, of course AGCO is AGCO and is a USA company...

SR
Don’t think the owned by fiat thing is correct. Fiat industrial and CNH merged in 2013 to create CNH Industrial. And CNH industrial is owned by EXOR. EXOR owns a lot or a little of a lot of companies…
 
   / Farmall® A or C Series? Or, ...? #19  
Don’t think the owned by fiat thing is correct. Fiat industrial and CNH merged in 2013 to create CNH Industrial. And CNH industrial is owned by EXOR. EXOR owns a lot or a little of a lot of companies…

The histories of these companies is quite complicated and is intertwined in some cases.

New Holland was founded in 1895. It was bought by Sperry-Rand in 1947 to become Sperry-New Holland. Ford bought New Holland from Sperry-Rand in 1986 and rolled them into their agricultural division to create Ford/New Holland. Ford then sold Ford/New Holland to FIAT in 1991. FIAT bought CaseIH in 1999 to create CNH Global, then split their their remaining non-automotive business that wasn't CNH Global into FIAT Industrial in 2011. FIAT then merged CNH Global and FIAT Industrial together in 2013 to make CNH Global. FIAT (FIAT SpA) is now a separate company from CNH Industrial but its largest shareholder is the same one (Exor) that owns nearly all of CNH Industrial. Since all of the non-automotive FIAT products such as FIAT Power Technologies (FPT) got rolled into CNH Industrial, the products that CNH makes themselves use FPT engines.

J. I Case Co. was bought by Tenneco in 1967. Tenneco then bought the agricultural division from International Harvester in 1984 and merged it into Case to create CaseIH in 1985. All except a part of CaseIH's English business was bought by FIAT in 1999 to create CNH Global, as above. A portion of CaseIH's English business after FIAT's purchase was spun off as McCormick Tractors, this was done due to EU antitrust rules as EU regulators thought that all of Ford/New Holland + FIAT + CaseIH rolled into CNH Global would be too dominant in the market.

Allis-Chalmers started in 1901 with the merger of several different companies. They bought the Gleaner combine company in 1955. The sold a majority stake in their construction equipment business to FIAT in 1974, and sold their agricultural equipment division to Kloeckner-Humboldt-Deutz in 1985, who renamed it Deutz-Allis. AGCO was started in 1990 when the North American management of Deutz-Allis bought the North American division of Deutz-Allis from the parent company. They bought Hesston from FIAT in 1991 and bought Massey-Ferguson in 1993, White-New Idea in 1993, Fendt in 1997, and other companies since then. Interestingly, AGCO did have a joint venture with what became CNH Global for hay equipment but bought out their portion from CNH Global in 2000.

FIAT started to build tractors in 1919 and bought a majority stake in Allis-Chalmers's construction business in 1974 to create Fiat-Allis. They bought out Hesston in 1977, and sold some rebranded FIAT tractors in the U.S. under the Hesston brand until AGCO bought Hesston in 1991. The rest of FIAT's history is above.

There are some other joint ventures as well. For example, CNH Industrial makes the engines for John Deere's 5G series, those tractors use the same 3.4 L FPT four-cylinder as the Farmall 75C/Powerstar 75 rather than one of Deere's own engines.
 
   / Farmall® A or C Series? Or, ...?
  • Thread Starter
#20  
The histories of these companies is quite complicated and is intertwined in some cases.

New Holland was founded in 1895. It was bought by Sperry-Rand in 1947 to become Sperry-New Holland. Ford bought New Holland from Sperry-Rand in 1986 and rolled them into their agricultural division to create Ford/New Holland. Ford then sold Ford/New Holland to FIAT in 1991. FIAT bought CaseIH in 1999 to create CNH Global, then split their their remaining non-automotive business that wasn't CNH Global into FIAT Industrial in 2011. FIAT then merged CNH Global and FIAT Industrial together in 2013 to make CNH Global. FIAT (FIAT SpA) is now a separate company from CNH Industrial but its largest shareholder is the same one (Exor) that owns nearly all of CNH Industrial. Since all of the non-automotive FIAT products such as FIAT Power Technologies (FPT) got rolled into CNH Industrial, the products that CNH makes themselves use FPT engines.

J. I Case Co. was bought by Tenneco in 1967. Tenneco then bought the agricultural division from International Harvester in 1984 and merged it into Case to create CaseIH in 1985. All except a part of CaseIH's English business was bought by FIAT in 1999 to create CNH Global, as above. A portion of CaseIH's English business after FIAT's purchase was spun off as McCormick Tractors, this was done due to EU antitrust rules as EU regulators thought that all of Ford/New Holland + FIAT + CaseIH rolled into CNH Global would be too dominant in the market.

Allis-Chalmers started in 1901 with the merger of several different companies. They bought the Gleaner combine company in 1955. The sold a majority stake in their construction equipment business to FIAT in 1974, and sold their agricultural equipment division to Kloeckner-Humboldt-Deutz in 1985, who renamed it Deutz-Allis. AGCO was started in 1990 when the North American management of Deutz-Allis bought the North American division of Deutz-Allis from the parent company. They bought Hesston from FIAT in 1991 and bought Massey-Ferguson in 1993, White-New Idea in 1993, Fendt in 1997, and other companies since then. Interestingly, AGCO did have a joint venture with what became CNH Global for hay equipment but bought out their portion from CNH Global in 2000.

FIAT started to build tractors in 1919 and bought a majority stake in Allis-Chalmers's construction business in 1974 to create Fiat-Allis. They bought out Hesston in 1977, and sold some rebranded FIAT tractors in the U.S. under the Hesston brand until AGCO bought Hesston in 1991. The rest of FIAT's history is above.

There are some other joint ventures as well. For example, CNH Industrial makes the engines for John Deere's 5G series, those tractors use the same 3.4 L FPT four-cylinder as the Farmall 75C/Powerstar 75 rather than one of Deere's own engines.

Wow! A wealth of information and history there! Thanks!
 
 
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