FEL bucket reversing direction when rapid dump selected

[Mustache]

Not sure if the title of this thread makes sense, but I'll try to explain. I had it posted in Repairs originally, not realizing there was a Hydraulics Forum.

I have a Massey Ferguson 1560 with 1530 Front End Loader.

The other day when bush hogging a part of our property, I worked the loader while driving and mowing and when selecting the rapid dump the bucket all of a sudden tilted in, instead of dumping. Rapid dump as in lifting the boom and dumping the bucket at the same time. The valve is supposed to supply more oil/pressure to the bucket to dump while the boom still lifts. The loader has joystick control.

Just to clarify this some more, if I just select bucket dump (joystick to the right) it dumps, once I push further right (to the dump bucket and lift/lower boom simultaneously) the bucket suddenly reverses direction from dump (as it should be) to curl in.

After investigating some more, I found out that I don't have down pressure on the bucket either, but it can hold loads at the same time. The boom works fine, its just the bucket.

Last night I took the valve off and suspected maybe a leaky o-ring, but there is really nothing to it. Just a piston that directs the oil flow inside the valve and 3 o-rings between the different valves. Everything looks good.

I have not put it back together, but I am now suspecting it could be one (or both, that's what confuses me) of the bucket cylinders? If I dump the empty bucket, the tractor seems to have to labor quite a bit to get it to dump. The engine RPMs drop quite a bit off. Curling in seems to work just fine.

BTW, it is not the FEL Quick Couplers as I have taken them off and checked and everything looks good and they connect fine.

Any ideas what this might be, anyone?

Thanks,
Chris

 

[J_J]

Which part of your lever is the regen.

The way you explained it is not logical as the second right or far right is fast dump/curl down.

Fast dump has less power.

If you place the bucket flat on the ground. and curl down, which position of the lever will the bucket lift the front wheels?

Lever to the left is curl up full power

 

[Mustache]

Which part of your lever is the regen.

The way you explained it is not logical as the second right or far right is fast dump/curl down.

Fast dump has less power.

If you place the bucket flat on the ground. and curl down, which position of the lever will the bucket lift the front wheels?

Lever to the left is curl up full power

That's exactly what the problem was. Lever to the right, dump, far right dump and move boom at the same time. Except for some reason it reversed the dump to curl in.

Regardless, I took the quick couplers off the bucket hoses on the loader, looked at them and found nothing wrong with them. Put them back on, plugged everything back together and it works. No idea what was wrong, but it's fixed, at least for now.

I have down pressure with the bucket and the boom again, enough to lift the front end easily.

 

[k0ua]

Are your saying that the fast dump position of the joystick also moves the lift arms? Why in the wide world of sports would a manufacture do that? I have never seen anything like that. So you fast dump and smash into the sideboard of the truck you are loading at the same time?:confused3: I don't get it, could you pleas explain this, and what possible use this would be?:confused3: Extremely confused here.

 

[Mustache]

Are your saying that the fast dump position of the joystick also moves the lift arms? Why in the wide world of sports would a manufacture do that?

LOL, it makes perfect sense to me, but it's a choice for the operator, not plumbing issue. I also believe it is standard for loaders without the mechanical bucket leveling set up. The idea is that you can lift the boom while dumping the bucket so that you DON'T smash into the side of whatever you are loading. Works great, maybe I didn't explain it good though.

This video shows a front end loader with mechanical bucket leveling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47h9c09mzq8
Most loaders don't have that and the bucket needs to be leveled by the operator via hydraulics. The far right allows to lift (or lower) the boom and move the bucket at the same time via the joystick to keep the bucket level.

In this video you can see how the bucket needs to be dumped then the boom lifted after https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny6jSRJaM3s (asides from the horrible operator) the far right function of the joystick will avoid the this and the bucket can be dumped and the boom lifted at the same time.

Your Kubota should have that too, k0ua

 

[k0ua]

LOL, it makes perfect sense to me, but it's a choice for the operator, not plumbing issue. I also believe it is standard for loaders without the mechanical bucket leveling set up. The idea is that you can lift the boom while dumping the bucket so that you DON'T smash into the side of whatever you are loading. Works great, maybe I didn't explain it good though.

This video shows a front end loader with mechanical bucket leveling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47h9c09mzq8
Most loaders don't have that and the bucket needs to be leveled by the operator via hydraulics. The far right allows to lift (or lower) the boom and move the bucket at the same time via the joystick to keep the bucket level.

Your Kubota should have that too.

If you say so. Your link was to a very slow hydraulics 4 in 1 bucket demo on a Chinese tractor. I have been around compact tractors for well over 20 years and have never seen one that raises the boom during the regen (fast dump) cycle. If yours does that is cool by me. I no longer own a Kubota. and neither of the two that I did own had automatic bucket leveling, although I was aware that such things existed on some tractors. I now have a Kioti. The "other" orange tractor.

 

[Mustache]

I now have a Kioti. The "other" orange tractor.

oops, sorry, it even says so below your avatar. My apologies.

 

[k0ua]

oops, sorry, it even says so below your avatar. My apologies.

After looking at the video again, I see you were explaining the mechanical bucket leveling feature. I was focused on what appeared to me to be slow hydraulic (low flow rate) response.