FEL hydraulic tie-in

[DCook]

Hi,

I have a Case 235 with the hydrostat transmission. I have built a front end loader, but I don't know where to find information that would tell me where to tie in the hydraulics to the tractor. Any suggestions?

thanks,
dean

 

[MadDogDriver]

Welcome to TBN Dean!!

Have you tried looking at the Case IH website, http://www.caseih.com/?
Once in that website, click on "Search for parts" icon under Parts & Service and then enter your tractor's model. This is a poor man's version of seeing the parts breakdown of your tractor and attachments without having a $300 plus repair manual.

I've used CNH's New Holland version for my tractor and have found it helpful in understanding how it's put together. I'm seriously considering putting out the bucks for the repair manual. Like many of us, I'm always interested in how stuff works (and how not to fix sumthin that ain't broke or make it worse trying to fix it).

Also, when you get a chance, go to the My Home page and update your profile so we get to know you better and depending on future questions it could help others give you better answers.

 

[Kernopelli]

I saw your post and want to thank you. I own a Mitsubishi MTE 2000D. Mits. made some of Cases/IH small tractors and the International 254 is the U.S. version of my tractor. I went to the Case link you posted and searched the 254 parts and it is virtually an exact copy of my Mitsubishi service manual. I am thrilled to see that I can very likely get parts for my tractor (if need be) from a case dealer. Thanks again for this info!
Darryl

 

[MadDogDriver]

No problem Darryl.

That's one of the greatest attributes of TBN, you find all sorts of info that makes life easier. I've only been a member for a few months and have really appreciated finding gems in the least expected places.

Glad the post helped you out.

 

[blackd]

Most of us tie into the Hi Pressure line coming off the pump with compression fittings. One for out (to the open center valve.) One for In (back from the open center valve.) Just Mike the OD of the tubing. Go to a hydraulics shop with the measurements. Two compression fittings. Two right angles two lines with the appropriate ends, and you have connected the control valve.

 

[DCook]

Hi Black,

I want to make sure I understand. You are cutting into the line, routing it through the valve and then back to the line. No tee's. Just (2) 90's? This will have no ill effect on my hydrostatic transmission? My valve is open center, with the option to convert to closed center. I was thinking to tee into the line and change my valve to closed center but I like your method better.

thanks,
dean

 

[Renze]

How could re-routing the main oil flow from a hydrostatic transmission have no effect on the transmission ???

As soon as you open the spool valve and direct oil to the loader, the tractor throws out an anchor and comes to a direct stop because the oil flow to the transmission motor is cut off.

You will very likely blow up your transmission motor due to the inertia of the tractor, it will create a vacuum in the pressure line, with usually disastrous results to the motor (cavitation)

leave the HST alone, take it off the 3pt lift oil circuit.

Oh, and make sure there is a pressure relief valve BEFORE the first spool valve block. We tee'd a line into the main line of a Deutz D50 tractor, but this needed a spool valve block with built in relief valve, because the tractor's normal relief valve was down at the rear end where the other controls were, which would leave the front loader operation without pressure relief.

 

[DCook]

My experience with tractors is almost none, so I'm going to have to keep asking questions. Looking at my tractor, and at the CaseIH website, it appears the pressure line from the pump goes straight to the 3 point. And there is only one line connecting to the 3 point, at least externally. No visible return line. And since this is the pressure line, and it only goes to the 3 point, there are no visible pressure lines feeding the transmission. I have to assume there is internal lines feeding the transmission. I cannot tie in to internal lines. If tying in to the one pressure line is going to result in problems, I might have to ad another pump and reservoir. An expense I'd prefer not to have. I suppose I need to search for someone who has a similar model tractor with an FEL.

 

[Renze]

you can safely tap into that line from the pump to the 3pt hitch, as it's a separate circuit.

the 3pt valves probably just dump into the gearcase.
Can you find another suction line on the oil pump, try to see where it goes. Probably from below, into the transmission ???


Make sure you get a valve block with built in pressure relief.

 

[Kernopelli]

As I had mentioned in our PM, I too made an end loader for my Mits 2000D (Case 254), I cut the high pressure line and ran 90 degree elbow compression fittings on both sides of the line where I cut it. I ran a 1/2" hose from the pump side elbow fitting into the pressure inlet port on my joystick valve on the loader. I then ran out of the power beyond port on the joystick valve back into the the other elbow I plumber in and that runs back into the 3 point. To exhaust the fluid from my valve, I ran a 1/2" hose from the tank port on the joystick to the trans case so it can dump back in. I simply removed the dipstick/filler cap and used galvanized pipe fittings that screw into the dipstick/filler cap threads and connected it to the said "exhaust" hose. If you go to the Case/IH website and look under "hydraulics, hydraulic supply" the high pressure line is the small line coming off the bottom of the pump (it is labeled part #2) and I cut it right in front of the suction screen/filter that is in the suction (return line, part #1) that runs from the rear of the trans case to the top of the pump. Hope this helps.

Darryl

 

[DCook]

Renze's comments about damaging the trans concern me. I have only one supply line coming off my pump. It runs to the 3 point, which sits on top of the differential. If I tie in to that line I'll be tying in before the transmission and the 3 point. Renze's first comment says I can't tie in there.

There is a plate if front of the transmission where several lines come and go from. I'll call it the valve plate. Coming off of the valve plate, there is a line that goes to the filter, then the cooler, then back to the valve plate. My suction lines look different than that in the picture on the CaseIH website. I have a suction line coming off of what I would call the differential housing (below the 3 point). It goes to the pump. Coming off of the valve plate is a line that ties in to the suction line at the differential housing.

Can I tie in to the pressure line coming off of the pump without hurting the transmission? Is there enough pressure in the line going to the filter to run the loader?

 

[Kernopelli]

I can't imagine that the tractor wouldn't support an end loader OR be able to adapt one. Here are two options that's not been discussed. Have you considered a hydraulic pump ran off the PTO? That was my initial descision when I began building mine but decided against it mostly because I do all my mowing with a finish mower and you can't run both without constant hook up- removal of the pump. Many older loaders ran pumps off the front of the crankshaft too. I will bet that if you get down in front of the tractor and look under the bumper to the front of the engine you will be able to see the belt pulley on the crank- mine has 3 bolt holes around the pulley that would allow the bolting of the shaft to a front mounted pump and it even has a hole through the front sheet metal to allow a shaft to extend out to the front of the tractor. I saw a number older loaders set up this way and always just assumed they would not work on my tractor until I investigated it and saw it was a possibility. If neither of these appeal to you, check with your local Case/IH dealer. (My experience with dealing with my 3 local tractor dealers {Kubota, New Holland, Kioti} is you have about 10,000% better chance of obtaining the info you need by talking face-to-face with the service or parts manager as opposed to doing it over the phone). Tell them you are wanting to put a loader on your tractor and want to get a list of what you will need, prices and how it all hooks up. The schematic is somewhat vague on the Case site but I ddo believe that the pump would support a loader. In my manual for my tractor it covers the smaller tractors as well, for your version it appears the pump for the hydro tractors is located in the trans housing. It states " The transmission utilizes a reversable swash plate, variable displacement, axial single piston type pump to provide hydraulic pressure to a stationary swashplate, fixed displacement, piston type motor". Further in the manual it shows the external pump that we have discussed and states it is strictly for the 3 point function. Where you see the line that enters the side of the trans case is for the filter and does not hook into the drive system hydraulics. It states that the pump is rated at 3.4 GPM at 1920 PSI. My opinion is you would be fine hooking into this line (as long as you use smaller cylinders as 3.4 GPM is not a lot for larger size cylinders), but if in doubt check with your dealer. Hope this helps.

Darryl

 

[blackd]

DCook, you are taking the pressure off the hydraulic pump and rerouting. The HST should have its own pump. It should not effect the xmission at all. My tractor is a Yanmar, with a Powershift xmission, even it, the Xmission, has its own pump.

Think it through. Hi out from pump to open center valve. When valve is activated, part of flow is temporarily diverted to hydraulic ram. Only circuit effected is the 3 Pt, and even then only while valve is activated.

Xmission still works on its own pump. Only common point is the Xmssion is the oil reservoir.

 

[DCook]

Problem solved. Thanks everyone for the help. I'm going to shop for fittings now.

thanks again,
dean

 

[Renze]

i'll clarify my comments:
tie-ing into the HST circuit is asking for trouble.
The 3pt hitch on your tractor (any tractor) is a different circuit than the HST.
You can safely tie into the 3pt hitch circuit as long as you put a pressure relief valve on the beginning of your new circuit
(Tee piece - pressure relief valve - valve blocks - loader cylinders)

 

[DCook]

I've been using my FEL now for several weeks. Works great. Thanks for the help.