Fire Insurance Availability... California

[ultrarunner]

Looking at buying a home about a mile outside the city limit... it is well water with 10,000 gallon fire sprinkler water tank, fire sprinklers in home and shop, metal roof on shop, fired tile roof on house and a concrete pond for additional water.

Structures are within 100 feet of highway... and property is not forested.

The Insurance Agents/Brokers I deal with both said no go...

Nearest city water fire hydrant is 3/4 of a mile away.

Learned it is just not county... but large sections of nearby cities with high end homes are also not being able find carriers...

I have track records with both agents.... Farmers and State Farm, zero claim history and go back 30 years.

The consensus is the drought and the worst fire season on record leave the only option the State Fund which is the insurance of last resort on only offers minimal structure coverage.

Just wonder if others have run into this?

On a personal note... it has become very difficult to take out trees and even disc in some areas due to sensitive habitat...

Last year someone was fined for creating a fire break on his property in a snake sensitive habitat.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

Try Liberty Mutual. Also ask an independent agent to shop around for you. Just make sure you verify the solvency of the no name options he comes up with.

 

[ultrarunner]

Try Liberty Mutual. Also ask an independent agent to shop around for you. Just make sure you verify the solvency of the no name options he comes up with.

Funny you should mention Liberty Mutual...

Had several friends with them and a local Agent trying to get me to switch...

So, when I bought my next home I said sign me up... silence... then I found out they had completely suspended writing in California... don't know for how long but they were not the only one... Fireman's had simply pulled out of my market and it is a local company or it was until the Alliance Deal...

Hope to never need it even though it is a significant expense...

Decided to pass on the home for now... price, size and issues for insurance and new underwriting plus my new California Property Tax bill would be over 20k for a home and shop on 1.3 acres...

My 10k Property Tax for my acre plus home is already a lot... can't imagine doubling that...

Maybe I will revisit during the next market downturn...

As a sidebar... I have been keeping a close eye on area Real Estate... more inventory added every day and about half was bought in the last 3 to 5 years and now is priced 50 to 100% higher... don't see how this is sustainable...

 

[RobertBrown]

just pay cash

 

[ultrarunner]

For the Insurance or Property?

Is a Homeowner policy available without fire???

My agent is Farmers and they use a rating system and even being a few years old and being fully sprinklered with 10,000 gallon water storage for fire sprinklers and a dedicated standpipe and well pump for fire... he said there was nothing he could do for me in Castro Valley CA unless the county puts in a Fire Hydrant in front...

Imagine it will only become harder to get and cost more when you do.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

A few years ago ISO, a standards organization, changed the way it rated both fire houses and residences with regard to Fire Protection Class. The new system takes into account not only how far the home is from the nearest responder, but how much time it would take to make the trip. It also distinguishes between volunteer and pro staffed fire houses, and whether or not they are staffed 24x7x365. The bottom line is that if you're less than 15 minutes or 7.5 miles away from a 24x7x365 professionally staffed fire house, you'll be placed in Class 9, and that's the highest class many insurance companies will write a policy for. I think if you have fire hydrants close by, that drops you to Class 8 and your insurance will be discounted slightly. It doesn't matter if you've made fire clearance around the home, provided a hundred thousand gallons of water storage, put in sprinklers, or any of that. Somewhere out there is a table that all the insurance companies use, and if you're outside the 15 minutes or 7.5 miles away from a 24x7x365, you're not going to get a policy from anyone but the State.

Every time there's a big wildfire up here, the local TV stations go around shooting pictures of all the burned houses. Once in a while they'll also show one or two that didn't burn, and it's always because the owners provided adequate clearance around the house. Some of the images are startling: Nothing but ash and cinders all around except for certain houses, which sit undamaged inside their little islands. Yet the insurance companies can't be bothered to take this preparation into account, most likely because it would cost them money to send someone out to inspect the place, and it's easier to upcharge everyone, even those that try to mitigate the hazard.

It wasn't clear if your friends that use Liberty Mutual had been denied renewal, or if LM is just not writing any new policies.

 

[ultrarunner]

At that time LM had suspended the writing of new policies... some insurers simple left the State and my Fireman's fund said they no longer insured "Low Value" homes... I had 1200 square feet on a city lot with fire station and fire hydrant a block away... insured at 275k and new minimum was 500k... it was clear they no longer wanted to insure modest homes in Oakland and surrounding areas.

The home I looked at had a neighbor that recently sold and the buyer bought a policy from Loyd's of London for $5500... the previous owner was paying $1800

I'm sure we will all feel the impact of the California fires... at least those of us in California!

 

[Junkyard Jim]

California didn't have a problem making me buy flood insurance, even after I paid a surveyor to prove I wasn't in a flood plain, to help pay for the floods in other places but they won't make the same insurance company issue me a policy for my house up in the mountains. Go figure. We had just gotten inspected by the local fire department and got a "good job" and smiley face on our paperwork due to all the work we had done getting it ready to protect ourselves, but the insurance company acts like we are washing gun powder with gasoline. It's BS at best.

 

[downsizingnow48]

Ditto what redneckgeek said. We had the same experience in Mendocino county. My insurance company (USAA) for the last 28 years cancelled our homeowner policy when those new rules were set up.

 

[ultrarunner]

Since I first posted I found two people at work have the same problem... both 20+ years and live just over the city line in the county on a couple of acres with a horse or two... real nice places and clean as a whistle...