Fixed PTO Problem - not what I expected

[woodlandfarms]

So, I ordered a PTO Actuator from PT. It cost $179. This is just the magnet, not the valve.

Well, it did not work. I then went and bought a hydraulic guage set up ($50 so far). It showed the proper pressure...

So, I went back to the valve. Took it into the shop. Called the wife (she has glasses, I refuse to buy any). She says well stupid there is a bunch of junk in the valve.

It looks like the insides of my hoses have been breaking down. There was some little plastic parts black with striations that look like wire mesh. These parts are maybe 1/16 to 1/8 inch. Well they had jammed themselves up into the valve. It took some picture hanging wire, and some pliers, some carb cleaner and a lot of patience and now my valve is working... Woo Hoo.

 

[Tig]

Glad you got it sorted out. Thanks for posting the fix info for those of use who may have this problem in the future.

 

[Marks481]

good to know you finally solved your problem. I think that if it took much longer, that you would have replaced everything on your tractor.

Contamination in a hydraulic system can be a real PIA to solve (try dealing with a 500 gallon system with about 50 solenoid valves that has ingested about 50 gallons of seawater....)... frequently you spend all your time troubleshooting symptoms instead of solving the original problem.

 

[woodlandfarms]

So, before I go out to repair my center section I ask this.

Everyone here is deep in discussion about filtering down to 2 microns, but I have chunks to stuff in my system and it does not raise much of an issue (ie Terry said the filters will catch the stuff eventually). I guess big peices like this can only really mess up the valve and not much more? The motors and pumps will just push this through and the 10 micron stuff is just a wear issue?

 

[J_J]

So, I ordered a PTO Actuator from PT. It cost $179. This is just the magnet, not the valve.

Well, it did not work. I then went and bought a hydraulic guage set up ($50 so far). It showed the proper pressure...

So, I went back to the valve. Took it into the shop. Called the wife (she has glasses, I refuse to buy any). She says well stupid there is a bunch of junk in the valve.

It looks like the insides of my hoses have been breaking down. There was some little plastic parts black with striations that look like wire mesh. These parts are maybe 1/16 to 1/8 inch. Well they had jammed themselves up into the valve. It took some picture hanging wire, and some pliers, some carb cleaner and a lot of patience and now my valve is working... Woo Hoo.

Carl,

This kind or situation will continue until you replace all the old hoses. If you have ever looked at the bottom of your hydraulic tank, you should see a good bit of the old hoses, and other junk. All the junk from the return circuits will come back to the tank and float around until vibration and settlement will occur, at the same time, the other pumps are using what ever is at the suction ports of the tank. PT knows better, they just will not so anything about it. On most of the PT's, the only thing that is filtered is the charge oil going to the tram pump. They should have put a high pressure filter in each of the pump circuits. If those hoses are cracking on the out side, they are breaking down on the inside, and every time they flex during use or handling, separation will occur. The other guy that bought the two units, and sold you one, is he having the same trouble? Seems like you had PT refurbish your PT, is that correct?

 

[toy]

So, before I go out to repair my center section I ask this.

Everyone here is deep in discussion about filtering down to 2 microns, but I have chunks to stuff in my system and it does not raise much of an issue (ie Terry said the filters will catch the stuff eventually). I guess big peices like this can only really mess up the valve and not much more? The motors and pumps will just push this through and the 10 micron stuff is just a wear issue?

You should have most all of your old hoses replaced by now right? If not I think like JJ , I would try to get all of the old hoses replaced couldn't be too many more of them is there. If I couldn't afford to do a complete hydroulic oil change out I think I would try to figure out a way to pump out the oil,being as clean as possible with it and I would strain the oil to get as much of the big stuff out of it as possible keeping the excavated oil in a clean container and then I beleive I would see if I couldn't clean the tank out and get all the junk out of it. With a lot of junk circulating in your system as you are describing it can't be good on your pumps, valves and cylinders. If when you are opperating your machine and a releif valve was to open up and a peice of that got caught in the valve with it partially open then the functions that that releif valve protected would seem sluggish and weak. Stuff in your hydroulics floating around can continuiously be giving you ghost symptoms[try to lift your bucket one time and it will be slow then the next time try it and it will work fine. Those kind of problems is a pain to try to figure out.

 

[toy]

Woodlandfarms one of those little diaphram pumps like people use to pump kerosene out of the can into a kerosene heater would probably work as a cheap pump.

 

[ponytug]

Carl,
The 2 micron debris that people worry about is 2 micron debris hard enough to scratch steel, seal surfaces, and bearings. I suspect that your debris is from dead and dying hoses, which means it is hard rubber. Probably less worrisome than sand, but underneath that rubber is going to be steel wire mesh. When it start rusting, or fatiguing off, you'll have debris hard enough to cause wear in critical areas.

I'd get moving on replacing the rest of the hoses, and then 2 micron filter the whole tank, run the tractor for a bit, and do it again.

J.J. Are you thinking of suction filters for all pumps? Or pressure side filters for all the pumps?

All the best,

Peter

 

[woodlandfarms]

I have 3 major hoses left, The PTO Return (hard as a rock) the PTO Relieve (Hard as a rock) and the 1" source... I may have some minor ones as well. I saw a wet hose in the center section yesterday....

The funny thing is that I am not that frustrated by the hoses anymore.

 

[J_J]

Peter,

If I had the resources, I would put suction filters before the pumps, and high pressure filters before the valve and hyd motor, or accessories . A good oil analysis is also another way of protecting your hydraulic system.

Filter, filter, filter, and try to eliminate most of the heat from the hydraulic fluid.