Ford 1700 Hyds bleeding off and relief valve

namvet69 · Jun 8, 2008

Want to say hello to everyone in the forum, my first post. I've been reading this forum for a couple of weeks now and I really like it here. My Ford 3000D clutch locked up on me a little over a month ago. It happened all at once while I was unloading it from the trailer, pushed the clutch in and it kept going, I was quick on the fuel shut off, so no damage to anything but my wife was helping unhook chains and binders and could have easily been hurt bad. Thanks to the "Big Guy" for watching over us. I found a Ford 1700D in the paper, went and looked at it and due to a bum leg, didn't operate it much, just took the guys word. Hyds worked good, engine ran good, he told me it had a new water pump and thermostat in it. I needed something to catch up on my chores around here (90 acres) while I was fixing the 3000 so I bought it. After getting it home and changing all of the fluids, the hyds started getting real jerky and I noticed that the pressure relief valve would squeal and the engine would labor when I raised the lift arms all the way up. First thing I did was check the valve, I thought maybe it was stuck but it looked good, cleaned it and reinstalled it, looked for my 3000 psi hyd gauge that I hadn't used in 15 years, couldn't find it, I guess I loaned it somebody. Next was the screen in the sump, I pulled it, it didn't look bad but I cleaned it and it was a little dirty but not that you could tell by looking at it. It was kinda like it was coated with a much heavier fluid than I had put in. I reinstalled it and started the tractor and the hyds worked fine except for the squeal in the relief valve and now as soon as I shut it down, it bleeds down in a hurry. I have read all of the posts from Jc-jetro and found them to be a great help, thank you. I'm going to start on the lift cyl next week and replace the piston seal. Hope this works and I'm sure that's what it is. I took it to the field with a 5' hog and it immediately overheated. I cleaned the screen but it wasn't dirty. I flushed the radiator but it didn't look bad. I tried again to mow the field, it overheated again but not as hot as first, I let it cool and flushed the radiator again and again. It got better with each flush. I went to pull the thermostat and....none it it. Looked at the water pump and it was original. I pulled the battery and BTW, it has a big group 27 sitting right in front of the radiator, do I really need one that big for this little 2 cyl? I took a water hose and cleaned out the fins on the radiator, put it all back together except I didn't have a thermostat. Now the temp is right where it should be. I bush hogged 5 acres of fescue that was topping out and it did a great job, just took a little longer than I was use to. Now, back to the relief valve, it squeals and the engine labors when the lift arms are all the way up. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I need to get caught up around here so I can split the 3000, big difference in HP and the time it takes to get a job done. Thanks for all of the great info in this forum.

dqdave1 · Jun 8, 2008

You may have an adjustment that needs adjusting on the 3 Pt. It should be located on one of the 3 pt arms. As it raises, it contacts the adjustment arm and stops pump.

namvet69 · Jun 8, 2008

dqdave1 said:
You may have an adjustment that needs adjusting on the 3 Pt. It should be located on one of the 3 pt arms. As it raises, it contacts the adjustment arm and stops pump.

Thanks, yes I saw that but thought I'd wait till my manual comes in, it's on back order. If it's out of adjustment, it makes sense that the seal is gone on the piston.

JC-jetro · Jun 8, 2008

namvet69 said:
Want to say hello to everyone in the forum, my first post. I've been reading this forum for a couple of weeks now and I really like it here. My Ford 3000D clutch locked up on me a little over a month ago. It happened all at once while I was unloading it from the trailer, pushed the clutch in and it kept going, I was quick on the fuel shut off, so no damage to anything but my wife was helping unhook chains and binders and could have easily been hurt bad. Thanks to the "Big Guy" for watching over us. I found a Ford 1700D in the paper, went and looked at it and due to a bum leg, didn't operate it much, just took the guys word. Hyds worked good, engine ran good, he told me it had a new water pump and thermostat in it. I needed something to catch up on my chores around here (90 acres) while I was fixing the 3000 so I bought it. After getting it home and changing all of the fluids, the hyds started getting real jerky and I noticed that the pressure relief valve would squeal and the engine would labor when I raised the lift arms all the way up. First thing I did was check the valve, I thought maybe it was stuck but it looked good, cleaned it and reinstalled it, looked for my 3000 psi hyd Tauge that I hadn't used in 15 years, couldn't find it, I guess I loaned it somebody. Next was the screen in the sump, I pulled it, it didn't look bad but I cleaned it and it was a little dirty but not that you could tell by looking at it. It was kinda like it was coated with a much heavier fluid than I had put in. I reinstalled it and started the tractor and the hyds worked fine except for the squeal in the relief valve and now as soon as I shut it down, it bleeds down in a hurry. I have read all of the posts from Jc-jetro and found them to be a great help, thank you. I'm going to start on the lift cyl next week and replace the piston seal. Hope this works and I'm sure that's what it is. I took it to the field with a 5' hog and it immediately overheated. I cleaned the screen but it wasn't dirty. I flushed the radiator but it didn't look bad. I tried again to mow the field, it overheated again but not as hot as first, I let it cool and flushed the radiator again and again. It got better with each flush. I went to pull the thermostat and....none it it. Looked at the water pump and it was original. I pulled the battery and BTW, it has a big group 27 sitting right in front of the radiator, do I really need one that big for this little 2 cyl? I took a water hose and cleaned out the fins on the radiator, put it all back together except I didn't have a thermostat. Now the temp is right where it should be. I bush hogged 5 acres of fescue that was topping out and it did a great job, just took a little longer than I was use to. Now, back to the relief valve, it squeals and the engine labors when the lift arms are all the way up. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I need to get caught up around here so I can split the 3000, big difference in HP and the time it takes to get a job done. Thanks for all of the great info in this forum.

Howdy namvet69,

Welcome. That guy got to be a sleaze ball lying like that in your face..

New water pump and t-stat!! sorry that you had to deal with a low life. Any how, I see no problem changing the lift piston seal as it is 45 minutes jobby and cost under $15. Now about the chatter on your lift system. I'll give my experience with 1700 set up.

1) in pic below you see nut that could establish max travel of the hyd. previous owner might moved the final position up thinking a higher lift . in a case like that you'd force the pressure relief to chatter and relief. simply lowering the high position may solve.

2) The pressure setting othe relif may be low. You really need a gage to adjust it. There is no shims there on my 1700. You might turn it one whole turn to CW to increase the lift to see if stops chattering. I personally will not do that as it is shot in the dark.

3) The external feed back arm might be out of adjustment. look at the thread closely to see if there is any sign of anybody manipulated the adjustment nut. I'll let it alone if there no sign of adjustment.

There is a method of adjusting the link for the 1700. let me know if you want it and I'll post the information.

Good luck,

JC

PS. By the way on your lift piston head there is a relief mechanism to relive the pressure when shock loading is involved.(like driving 15 miles/hr on rough terrain with a heavy implement attached to your 3 point). The relief device, releases the pressure back to the reservoir. if the relief ball is not seated well you may be reliving all the time hence drop of 3 point.

The 1st hole on the left is shock relief, the second on the left normal lift passage with a check valve and the 3rd is rate of drop reliving the pressure back thru the hyd valve.

this is the relief mechanism for the hyd piston, notice two balls and two check valve the first ball on the right acts as shock relief and the second one with the bigger ball is the check valve for the lift piston.

namvet69 · Jun 9, 2008

JC-jetro said:
Howdy namvet69,

Welcome. That guy got to be a sleaze ball lying like that in your face.. New water pump and t-stat!! sorry that you had to deal with a low life. Any how, I see no problem changing the lift piston seal as it is 45 minutes jobby and cost under $15. Now about the chatter on your lift system. I'll give my experience with 1700 set up.

Good luck,

JC

Thanks for the great info on the 1700, I've read most of your posts and I must say you are very thorough. I looked at the adjustment for the control lever and thought maybe someone had moved it higher. Anyway, I'm waiting on my manual, don't jump without a chute. I also took that relief mechanism out of the flow control valve and inspected it but it seemed to be OK. If I can just find my gauge, I'll set that relief valve. I started on the 3000 tonight and it is ready to split. I may need that info on adjusting the link on the lift arm on the 1700 if it's not covered in the manual. Again, Thanks Much.

One more thing, I didn't have the bleed off until I changed the fluid and raised the arm to the top notch position, that's when I heard all the noise and the engine started bulging down. I'm pretty sure the seal on the piston went south at that point.

JC-jetro · Jun 9, 2008

namvet69 said:
Thanks for the great info on the 1700, I've read most of your posts and I must say you are very thorough. I looked at the adjustment for the control lever and thought maybe someone had moved it higher. Anyway, I'm waiting on my manual, don't jump without a chute. I also took that relief mechanism out of the flow control valve and inspected it but it seemed to be OK. If I can just find my gauge, I'll set that relief valve. I started on the 3000 tonight and it is ready to split. I may need that info on adjusting the link on the lift arm on the 1700 if it's not covered in the manual. Again, Thanks Much.

One more thing, I didn't have the bleed off until I changed the fluid and raised the arm to the top notch position, that's when I heard all the noise and the engine started bulging down. I'm pretty sure the seal on the piston went south at that point.

You'r welcome.

I do have IT FO-44 and Owner's manual for 1700. let me know if you need any part of it. The NH website does have great detail of innards of the Ford tractor that is down loadable. very good resource indeed. Below you'll find the info that may help you in replacement of the piston seal.

JC,

namvet69 · Jun 9, 2008

JC-jetro said:
The NH website does have great detail of innards of the Ford tractor that is down loadable. very good resource indeed. Below you'll find the info that may help you in replacement of the piston seal.

JC,

Once again, thanks for all of your help.

NV

namvet69 · Jun 27, 2008

Finally, the manual and parts came in today. I replaced the piston seal which was shot. The new seal was different, just a big O-ring. Replaced the other O-rings, put it back together and it is holding fine now. Set the relief valve @ 2350. I still have that jerky lift (hic-up). I also have an intermitent vibration in the presure tube near the relief valve. I drained the fluid and checked the filter again, not bad, I cleaned it and reinstalled it. That's as far as I got today. Do you think the pump needs the seals replaced? Thanks,

NV

JC-jetro · Jun 27, 2008

namvet69 said:
Finally, the manual and parts came in today. I replaced the piston seal which was shot. The new seal was different, just a big O-ring. Replaced the other O-rings, put it back together and it is holding fine now. Set the relief valve @ 2350. I still have that jerky lift (hic-up). I also have an intermitent vibration in the presure tube near the relief valve. I drained the fluid and checked the filter again, not bad, I cleaned it and reinstalled it. That's as far as I got today. Do you think the pump needs the seals replaced? Thanks,

NV

Good job,

Two things you need to look at. if the main relief valve at is not seating well because of wear or some rust can cause a bit of chattering and vibration. I make sure nothing is binding there and the conical shape valve is nice and symmetrical and seating well. By the way the relief pressure setting for 1700 is between 2065-2205 psi and not 2350 based on HO-44. you may be causing a bit of relief when the arm is at highest position.

Secondly, the relief for the lift piston seal, if the ball is malformed (not exactly round) due to many years of use and if the seat is got rust and crud build up can cause a bit of jerky lift. basically as you are raising the arm also your are relieving a bit and hence jerky move is like taking two step forward and half a step back ward. it is the spring and the ball on the right side of the assembly as it is pictured below. I just change the ball on mine and cleaned the inside up. don't use anything aggressive to grind the seat rather than soak it with WD and use a rag or soft plastic bristle brush on a dremel tool to clean.

As far as pump I don't worry about it now. If the shaft seal is busted then you can not pump oil and consequently can not lift the hyd arm. The pump overhaul is not difficult and it'll set you back $55 plus few hrs of work. if you decide to do the pump make sure to get a dremel tool or punch, mark the pump casing so you know how they go together, open it up in an organized manner by marking or otherwise to make sure all the bushings ( 4 bushings) are where it used be prior to disassembly, tolerances are very tight, don't force anything and make sure everything is spotless clean.

JC

namvet69 · Jun 27, 2008

JC-jetro said:
Good job,

Two things you need to look at. if the main relief valve at is not seating well because of wear or some rust can cause a bit of chattering and vibration. I make sure nothing is binding there and the conical shape valve is nice and symmetrical and seating well. By the way the relief pressure setting for 1700 is between 2065-2205 psi and not 2350 based on HO-44. you may be causing a bit of relief when the arm is at highest position.

Secondly, the relief for the lift piston seal, if the ball is malformed (not exactly round) due to many years of use and if the seat is got rust and crud build up can cause a bit of jerky lift. basically as you are raising the arm also your are relieving a bit and hence jerky move is like taking two step forward and half a step back ward. it is the spring and the ball on the right side of the assembly as it is pictured below. I just change the ball on mine and cleaned the inside up. don't use anything aggressive to grind the seat rather than soak it with WD and use a rag or soft plastic bristle brush on a dremel tool to clean.

As far as pump I don't worry about it now. If the shaft seal is busted then you can not pump oil and consequently can not lift the hyd arm. The pump overhaul is not difficult and it'll set you back $55 plus few hrs of work. if you decide to do the pump make sure to get a dremel tool or punch, mark the pump casing so you know how they go together, open it up in an organized manner by marking or otherwise to make sure all the bushings ( 4 bushings) are where it used be prior to disassembly, tolerances are very tight, don't force anything and make sure everything is spotless clean.

JC

Thanks JC-jetro,

I set the relief to the specs in in FO-44, just couldn't remember the pressure, long night. I think the pump is OK. I cleaned and inspected the main relief valve plus the valve on the cyl head, they both look fine. I'm getting ready to hook the suction tube back up and replace the oil. Also paying close attention to the O-Rings on the banjo fitting and mating surfaces. Since the oil didn't look like it did when I replaced it a couple weeks ago, I think I might get some new oil too. Thanks again.

NV