Ford 1700 just stopped moving

Piper Pacer · Jan 20, 2009

All, I have a 1982 Ford 1700 and was moving some sand around my driveway when I heard a sound and the tractor stopped moving. I had been dragging the sand around, not pulling the tractor that hard, and had lifted my box blade turning around when the tractor made a noise and wouldn't move.

When you put it in gear you can hear the gears messing just like always so it seems to be in gear. When you let out of the clutch the engine bogs down a little but it won't move.

I put it in neutral and jt pulled fine out of gear.
I also tried the PTO and it won't move either.

Does anyone have an idea what I should ckeck first?

Thanks,
Dennis

JC-jetro · Jan 20, 2009

Piper Pacer said:
All, I have a 1982 Ford 1700 and was moving some sand around my driveway when I heard a sound and the tractor stopped moving. I had been dragging the sand around, not pulling the tractor that hard, and had lifted my box blade turning around when the tractor made a noise and wouldn't move.

When you put it in gear you can hear the gears messing just like always so it seems to be in gear. When you let out of the clutch the engine bogs down a little but it won't move.

I put it in neutral and jt pulled fine out of gear.
I also tried the PTO and it won't move either.

Does anyone have an idea what I should ckeck first?

Thanks,
Dennis

Dennis,

I don't know if "live PTO" , double clutch was an option for 1700. Can you verify if you have single clutch plate? if so, you have transmission driven PTO. In that case you'll have "no PTO" if transmission is not coupled to engine. When You let out of clutch you said the engine gets bogged down, does it die all together? What happens when you keep the transmission in neutral , clutch all the way and engage the pto lever ? does the pto turn?
if the clutch is let out the power is still coupled to transmission lay shaft without tractor moving if the engine is on. Do you hear abnormal noise from transmission housing when you clutch and let the clutch out in some gear?

I can not see how pulling something can damage the PTO, specially when the pto was off. Can you with the "ENGINE OFF" turn the pto by hand in one direction? Can you with "ENGINE OFF", PTO lever engaged and tractor in gear turn the pto by hand in one direction?

Your answers might shed some light. you might have a busted clutch. Damaged clutch is heck of lot better than major transmission gear damage. $200 and some elbow grease you should be able to replace clutch on smallish 1700 tractor.

JC,

p.s, take the rubber hand hole cover from the transmission housing and take a peek inside of clutch housing with a flash light. what do you see there, may be metallic debris and pieces.

Hooked_on_HP · Jan 20, 2009

Unfortunately I think something broke in the trans.I would take the cover off the top of the trans. and look inside. Look at all the gears and see if any teeth are missing.
Bill

Piper Pacer · Jan 21, 2009

JC, I don't beleive it's a live PTO. When you push in on the clutch the PTO stops. The PTO will turn when it's in nuetral but the clutch has to be out.
Back to what happened yesterday, when I put it in gear and let out on the clutch it boggs down just a bit but doesn't die. It just sits there.
As far as any abnormal noises, not hearing any.
I will do some checking with the PTO later today to answer your questions.

Thanks,
Dennis

JC-jetro · Jan 21, 2009

Piper Pacer said:
JC, I don't beleive it's a live PTO. When you push in on the clutch the PTO stops. The PTO will turn when it's in nuetral but the clutch has to be out.
Back to what happened yesterday, when I put it in gear and let out on the clutch it boggs down just a bit but doesn't die. It just sits there.
As far as any abnormal noises, not hearing any.
I will do some checking with the PTO later today to answer your questions.

Thanks,
Dennis

Dennis,

In live PTO when you push the clutch "halfway" transmission is stopped and "all the way" and PTO stops. The statement you made "The PTO will turn when it's in neutral but the clutch has to be out. " indicates the clutch is okay and some part of your transmission works okay. So far, not so bad! I wondered if the release fork is messed up, broken or out of adjustment causing the gears not to shift hence bogging down the engine. As Bill suggested I'd take the cover of the transmission and take a peek inside, doing so should not bother anything. it is the plate in front of the lift cylinder head.

JC,

JB4310 · Jan 21, 2009

My first thought was clutch, but if you've ruled that out, and you say there's a little bog on the engine, this is just a shot in the dark maybe something on one side or the other in the rear end.

The light bog could be the rest of the drive line turning???

Couldn't that be ruled out by stepping on the axle lock to see if the other side engages???

Again this is just a wild guess, don't know that much about this machines drive train. Just trying to help since I also have a 1700.

Good luck,
JB.

Texas Blues · Jan 21, 2009

Do both shift levers act as if they are engaging in and out of gear? If the transmission input shaft wasnt turning you would be able to put it in gear with the clutch out and the engine running, I would doubt that that is the case. The clutch and input shaft are probably fine. It really doesnt sound like a clutch problem, It would probably raise **** when you stepped on the clutch pedel if the clutch fork or throw bearing was bad. Besides that, you would know something was up by the way the pedal felt. How about reverse? Will it move in reverse? I wonder if the hi lo range shift fork broke and as a result it stays in neutral..? Good luck, TB

Piper Pacer · Jan 21, 2009

We took the cover off and found that one of the shift fork springs that holds the detent ball has came out and it lodged in the gears. I'm not sure if there is something besides the spring in the gears but it has stopped the gears from turning. There is also one tooth on a gear that broke off but not the same gear that has the spring lodged.
I thought that maybe I could turn the gears in reverse to back out the piece that is lodged in the gears. I tried to put in reverse but that didn't work.
We are going to try jacking the rear wheels off the ground and see if we can move the wheels back and forth to unlodge the gears.

Do you know of a way to move it in reverse so we can get it unlodged?

Thanks,
Dennis

JC-jetro · Jan 21, 2009

Piper Pacer said:
We took the cover off and found that one of the shift fork springs that holds the detent ball has came out and it lodged in the gears. I'm not sure if there is something besides the spring in the gears but it has stopped the gears from turning. There is also one tooth on a gear that broke off but not the same gear that has the spring lodged.
I thought that maybe I could turn the gears in reverse to back out the piece that is lodged in the gears. I tried to put in reverse but that didn't work.
We are going to try jacking the rear wheels off the ground and see if we can move the wheels back and forth to unlodge the gears.

Do you know of a way to move it in reverse so we can get it unlodged?

Thanks,
Dennis

Dennis,

There are 4 detent balls and spring each under a nut just behind the gear and range shifter. if you loosen them the forks can go in an out more easily. jacking the rear up is the way to move the transmission. Did you take any pics? Link below might provide some help.

JC,

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/new-holland-owning-operating/127695-ford-1700-range-selector.html

Hooked_on_HP · Jan 21, 2009

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you have several problems. Usually if there are teeth broken on one gear they are broken on another also. It also seems your clutch is shot. With the trans locked up, when you let the clutch out it should have killed the engine.The clutch slipping may have saved you from severe trans damage though.
Bill

JB4310 · Jan 21, 2009

Spring probably wouldn't break a tooth, that might of been from the ball before it made its way to the bottom.
As far as turning the gears with the wheel, try it in different gears and ranges back and forth. If you can't move the gears with wheels because it's stuck in neutral, maybe a pry bar, carefully so not to do more damage to the gear.

Good luck
jb.

Texas Blues · Jan 22, 2009

Sorry to hear that piper, could be an expensive repair. Some pictures of your progress would be great, the more info the better. Makes me want to pull my 1700 apart and inspect those parts. Good luck, TB

Texas Blues · Jan 22, 2009

Here's a few pictures from the parts manual if it helps...TB

Piper Pacer · Jan 24, 2009

All, I was able to reverse the gears and get the spring out of the gears. The response about having clutch problems is probably correct and it's a good thing it's slipping because if not I would have had a lot more damage.
Now I'm putting things back together, although I didn't replace the gear that had a broken tooth. I'm going to see how bad the clutch is before I break the tractor in half. It might work for a bit longer before going through the entire tractor.
I was planning on rebuilding the tractor but the timing isn't right at the moment. I need the tractor for a few things before putting it out of commission for a total rebuild.

later,
Dennis

Texas Blues · Jan 24, 2009

Good luck piper, let us know what happenes.

Piper Pacer · Jan 31, 2009

All, well I'm back up and running. I purchased new springs, cleaned out the case and started it back up. It works just like it did before the failure. The problem is that the clutch is really weak and I see a replacement early in the future.
It does however work, especially in lower gears but doesn't want to move very well in high gears.
I adjusted the clutch but I don't think that's the problem.

Later,
Dennis