Ford 555 TLB purchase/inspection

[ktrout]

Hi there,
This is my first purchase of this kind of equipment...
Looked at a 1984 Ford 555 a few days ago. Asking price is $14,000. Clocks show 1296 hrs and 17,000 miles. Has an extra hoe bucket and a set of forks.
Found small cracks starting at sides of 4-in-1 loader and also at some factory welds on top of loader bucket, a hyd leak at one loader cylinder, and a hyd leak at a device on the right side of the engine(don't know what this device is). Several hoses losing outer covers and tubes rusting.
Engine rebuild was supposedly 3 years / 75 hours ago. Rear tires are new, fronts are good.

I see manyTLBs of this vintage are going for $9,000-10,000.
1296 hours seems so low for the age and milage.
It shows it age, but all is generally functional.
Any ideas what a fair price might be, all things considered? I would anticipate a lot of minor items will need fixed/replaced.

Thanks,
KT

 

[RickB]

It's a lot of money for a machine of that age & HP.

 

[ktrout]

Hello Rick-

Thanks for the feedback. I would probably be the last owner of this machine and wouldn't want to foot the bill for deferred maint, as well as pay a premium for something this old.

Kevin

 

[lfc]

I bought a 2wd open station 555A last year for $8000, and thought it was a very good deal at that price. If it was 4wd, it would probably be worth a couple thousand more, and the 4-in-1 bucket may add up to a thousand if you want it (wish I had one). My machine also has <1500 hours, and although Ford hourmeters are typically not the most reliable I believe this one may be accurate based on the wear on the rest of the machine. Look at the slop in the pins, the looseness of the control levers, the wear on the nubs on the brake pedal to get an idea of how much use it has had.
I wonder why this one needed an engine overhaul so early? The powertrain should be pretty reliable otherwise. I've never seen a machine with an odometer, but if it does have one rigged up and does have 17k miles on it then based on the hours it spent most of its life driving down the road?
I'd agree that $14k is too much, even if it was a mint 4x4 with a perfect cab.

 

[ktrout]

Hey lfc-

I read on a different post that a number of the 201 engines seemed to need a rebuild earlier than would be expected, before 3000 hours... some notion about possible marginal cooling capacity.

I can go without 4wd... price just has to be right!
I need to go for a second/final look soon.
Thanks for comparing notes.

Kevin

 

[EddieWalker]

Hi there,
This is my first purchase of this kind of equipment...
Looked at a 1984 Ford 555 a few days ago. Asking price is $14,000. Clocks show 1296 hrs and 17,000 miles. Has an extra hoe bucket and a set of forks.
Found small cracks starting at sides of 4-in-1 loader and also at some factory welds on top of loader bucket, a hyd leak at one loader cylinder, and a hyd leak at a device on the right side of the engine(don't know what this device is). Several hoses losing outer covers and tubes rusting.
Engine rebuild was supposedly 3 years / 75 hours ago. Rear tires are new, fronts are good.

I see manyTLBs of this vintage are going for $9,000-10,000.
1296 hours seems so low for the age and milage.
It shows it age, but all is generally functional.
Any ideas what a fair price might be, all things considered? I would anticipate a lot of minor items will need fixed/replaced.

Thanks,
KT

Something is VERY WRONG here. There is no way that you would need to rebuild an engine with just over 1,200 hours. There is no way that a machine with that few hours would have cracks in it and there is no way that the bucket would have enough wear on it to need any welds on the bucket. My 555E is a 98 and has 4,000 hours on it. I don't have any cracks, my engine is tight and original with no thought about needing a rebuild. I have tons of power!!!!

I paid $18,000 for mine with 1,500 hours on it eight years ago. For that kind of money, you need to keep looking. There are better deals out there for a machine that somebody isn't lying to you about how many hours are on it.

Eddie

 

[lfc]

Kevin,
It is not realy a cooling issue per se. Ford engines of that period can suffer from cavitation, where vibrations in the engine block can cause the engine coolant to bubble up and explode around the cylinders, eventually eating a small hole through the cylinder and resulting in coolant in the oil. Although it can happen on the 201, I think it is more common on the four cylinder 256/268 and especially on the six cylinder 401. Starting in the 80's, Ford added more ribs to the outside of the block to reduce the vibrations and help with the issue. The best prevention is regular replacement of the antifreeze, along with a coolant additive like Ford's old FW-15 coolant conditioner. Since the Ford engine is not sleeved from the factory, the only repair is to have it bored and a thin dry sleeve fitted, or get lucky with JB Weld.
I've had four 201's over the years with no cavitation issues. I doubt our old 4000 ever had the coolant changed for the first 10 years or so of its life (we didn't know better back then) and we never had any issues. However, a friend bought a used TW15 (401) with about 900 hours on it that had a hole. I guess is is a combination of good maintenance, and a lot of luck.

 

[ktrout]

Hi Eddie-

The current owner has had it maybe a year.... He may not really know what he's got. He used it some around his 1 acre residence. Anything I offer is going to have to be much lower than 14k. I hope he doesn't have nearly that much in it!
My alternatives are to make repeat checks with a local dealer, for used equipment, or web purchase on-line... I don't have much faith in the web route... Can't really count on a seller to stand by his sale.
Sounds like you have a nice machine. Maybe I should consider something newer.
Thanks for the input.

Kevin

 

[ktrout]

Kevin,
It is not realy a cooling issue per se. Ford engines of that period can suffer from cavitation, where vibrations in the engine block can cause the engine coolant to bubble up and explode around the cylinders, eventually eating a small hole through the cylinder and resulting in coolant in the oil. Although it can happen on the 201, I think it is more common on the four cylinder 256/268 and especially on the six cylinder 401. Starting in the 80's, Ford added more ribs to the outside of the block to reduce the vibrations and help with the issue. The best prevention is regular replacement of the antifreeze, along with a coolant additive like Ford's old FW-15 coolant conditioner. Since the Ford engine is not sleeved from the factory, the only repair is to have it bored and a thin dry sleeve fitted, or get lucky with JB Weld.
I've had four 201's over the years with no cavitation issues. I doubt our old 4000 ever had the coolant changed for the first 10 years or so of its life (we didn't know better back then) and we never had any issues. However, a friend bought a used TW15 (401) with about 900 hours on it that had a hole. I guess is is a combination of good maintenance, and a lot of luck.

That's an interesting phenomenon. I could probably go as far as getting the invoice for the engine work and contacting the shop for details on the findings and work performed.
I'm up for some moderate repairs, but would hope not acquire a machine with cavitation in action. This may be a case to find an early '90s machine.

kt

 

[lfc]

Kevin,
Don't let the threat of cavitation drive you away from an older machine. There are dozens of old Fords that have been in my local area, and I know of only a couple that have had the problem. Every brand/model of machine will have some weakness. The "Triple Nickel" Fords were known to be one of the best diggers in their day, and are much simpler than other brands. You could probably repair a cavitated block on a Ford for what you could spend on the hydraulic system on other machines. Keep looking for that 555 - you will find the right one eventually.