Ford 6610 Hard Starting Issues

[mojust84]

First of all many thanks to all of you who share info to keep our tractors moving when we need them.

I am currently having an interesting issue. I have a 1985 Ford 6610 that has been in the family since new. A few months ago I let the tractor set for a week while out of town and when i came back it was near impossible to get started.

It ran fine before i left. The first day i had the problems i changed the filter cracked all the lines and bled the system. it would then fire up for about 5 seconds and then starve off.

I went to check the injection pump oil and it was bone dry! so i serviced it per the manual and now if the tractor sits for more than a day it will do the same thing with hard starting then starting up and dying off several times before it runs like a champ.

what puzzles me is after the initial morning start i can fire it up as many times and work it all day long with absolutely no issues.

i need this tractor and have come to the point where i will more than likely go have the pump rebuilt and injectors as well to see it this solves it unless i can figure it out in the morning.

any ideas, tricks, or tips anyone has would be great. the tractor has 1800 hrs and the last injection pump rebuild was at 900 i believe.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Soundguy]

1800 hours.. and it's ALREADY had an injection pump rebuild? that's kinda odd to me... i'd kinda expect more like 4000 hrs for that.

is it loosing pump oil fast?

after it sets are you finding air in the injector lines?

soundguy

 

[Jerry/MT]

First of all many thanks to all of you who share info to keep our tractors moving when we need them.

I am currently having an interesting issue. I have a 1985 Ford 6610 that has been in the family since new. A few months ago I let the tractor set for a week while out of town and when i came back it was near impossible to get started.

It ran fine before i left. The first day i had the problems i changed the filter cracked all the lines and bled the system. it would then fire up for about 5 seconds and then starve off.

I went to check the injection pump oil and it was bone dry! so i serviced it per the manual and now if the tractor sits for more than a day it will do the same thing with hard starting then starting up and dying off several times before it runs like a champ.

what puzzles me is after the initial morning start i can fire it up as many times and work it all day long with absolutely no issues.

i need this tractor and have come to the point where i will more than likely go have the pump rebuilt and injectors as well to see it this solves it unless i can figure it out in the morning.

any ideas, tricks, or tips anyone has would be great. the tractor has 1800 hrs and the last injection pump rebuild was at 900 i believe.

Thanks in advance!

In order to start, a diesel engine in reasonable mechinical condition needs fuel, air, and a good battery/starter to crank it over.

I would suspect your fuel system is losing prime after sitting overnight. That's usually caused by an air leak in the fuel delivery system. Make sure your bleed screws are tight as well as all the fitting in the fuel delivery system. Look for small cracks in the lines or any dribbling of fuel.

 

[RickB]

Replace the transfer pump.

 

[mojust84]

uhhhh feeling very mechanically declined ATM.......Transfer Pump??????

 

[mojust84]

Also i found something interesting today. it really had only sat for about 15 hrs since it was ran yesterday and when i went to start it the battery was down from all the cranking yesterday and not adequate recharging, however it did turn over although slower than usual and once it fired up it didnt cough or sputter and just ran like it should. Maybe your theory on losing its prime and air somehow getting in the lines is the culprit?

 

[mojust84]

is this the manually lever operated pump on the side of the injector pump? the one that allows you to manually prime fuel from the tank to the filter?


think i may have a drip on both connections their as well

 

[RickB]

is this the manually lever operated pump on the side of the injector pump? the one that allows you to manually prime fuel from the tank to the filter?


think i may have a drip on both connections their as well

That's it. Transfer pump, lift pump, primer pump: pick a name.

 

[tcartwri]

is this the manually lever operated pump on the side of the injector pump? the one that allows you to manually prime fuel from the tank to the filter?


think i may have a drip on both connections their as well

Yes. And make sure to leave the lever in the unloaded position.

 

[Soundguy]

a drip? as in a leak? one that might suck air?

soundguy

 

[Jerry/MT]

Replace the transfer pump.

Rick, would it run at all if the transfer pump was bad?

 

[Soundguy]

if it's passing fuel it should run.. if it leaks.. it might let it suck air though..

soundguy

 

[RickB]

Rick, would it run at all if the transfer pump was bad?

A 6610 would gravity feed fuel to the injection pump and run; maybe not the best with 1/4 tank full. Any Ford with an inline pump/transfer pump arrangement that actually has to 'lift' the fuel won't run well at all if it can't provide positive fuel pressure (4 psi or so) to the injection pump.

 

[Jerry/MT]

A 6610 would gravity feed fuel to the injection pump and run; maybe not the best with 1/4 tank full. Any Ford with an inline pump/transfer pump arrangement that actually has to 'lift' the fuel won't run well at all if it can't provide positive fuel pressure (4 psi or so) to the injection pump.

I'm surprised that an engine with gravity feed would need a lift pump at all. It must be because of a requirement set by the injection pump.

 

[RickB]

I'm surprised that an engine with gravity feed would need a lift pump at all. It must be because of a requirement set by the injection pump.

RoosaMaster (Stanadyne) and CAV (Lucas) rotary injector pumps have internal vane style lift pumps built right in. Simms and Minnemec and Bosch inline pumps do not but all require positive pressure to the high pressure pumping elements. Bosch rotary pumps have been built both ways over the years.

 

[Jbrink64]

That pump will work with gravity feed, but works better with a few psi pressure feeding it. The lift pump is especially needed in other applications, such as the Ford A62 wheel loader, where the fuel tank is under the engine.

As for the starting issue, do all the checks previously mentioned. One last thing I would check is the fuel bleed fitting. There is a plastic tube (1/4") from the injection pump to the top of the injectors (leak off lines). Remove the banjo bolt from the pump. It has an orifice in it that needs to be clear. It can plug up with a little rust or crud. Ford use to recommend enlarging the orifice to help starting, but I can't remember to what size.

 

[Jbrink64]

The fuel bleed bolt is #75

 

[mojust84]

Wow thanks again for educating me guys. and a big thanks for the schematic. I will check that orifice and the return lines first thing monday morning.

Sorry i havent responded in a few days, we have been working hard theses past few days and using the tractor quite a bit. im happy to say that i did go back and fix the leaks and the past few mornings shes fired right up.


however i have used it everyday and it has only sit for 10 to 11 hours overnight between starts. i probably wont start it tomorrow so that ought to give it time to "leak down" or lose prime if it is going to i would think.

Also thank you for the explanation on the lift pump. guess it just never dawned on me its real purpose. i thought it was only a primer for cold starts in the winter:laughing:

one question though ...does the lift pump build PSI from the engine running or how does this pump work since it is a gravity fed system? also how often can you expect these to go out?

 

[Jbrink64]

The lift pump is a diaphragm type, with 2 check valves ( 1 on the inlet, 1 on the outlet). The diaphragm is "pumped" by a cam in the injection pump.

The lifespan of these pumps is not as long as they used to be. The new low sulfur or ultra-low sulfur fuel does a good job of drying out the "rubber" parts of the fuel systems and causing leaks and performance issues.