Ford 770 Loader Cylinder Rebuild- Do FEL's have their own repair manuals?

[toukow]

I'm about to embark on rebuilding the tilt cylinder on a Ford 770 loader that is on my Ford 1700 tractor. At the link below the gentleman encountered issues, which hopefully I will be able to avoid. I'm lucky in that the original poster scanned the page which I assume will be similar for the tilt cylinder.

My main question is this- do loaders have their own repair manuals? I have the 770 owners manual which does not discuss repair, but a search of the number in the lower right of the page shown at the link turned up nothing. Thanks.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/203164-loader-bucket-cylinder-repair-help.html

 

[Wolfy]

from The Good, the Bad and the Ugly?..... I have a Ford 1710 with a 770B loader. The 770B manual shows the process to take a part and put back together a loader cylinder. I do not fully understand what it says, but I need to repack one cylinder on my tractor, and the closest cylinder repair shop I know of is about a 1 hour drive away. I have found seal kits on Ebay.

 

[toukow]

I have found seal kits on Ebay.

Thanks, I've ordered the kit so am somewhat committed. I'm really curious as to what manual is being shown at the link. I think it contains enough information to proceed, but then again, the original poster ran into trouble. I guess I can always bail, as I do have access to hydraulic shops in Seattle.

As aside, I have not really found the differences between the 770, 770A, and 770B. I assume one is a quick release design. Thanks, Dean

 

[Wolfy]

My 770B is a quick release design. And who knows, maybe the shop wont mind if you bring them a seal kit? Maybe they would do it while you wait.

 

[nsmithnd]

I've done both of my bucket cylinders. The first one (not knowing what I was really doing) was a piece of cake, the second one was a royal pain due to rust in the wire slot on the cap end. Saw a YouTube video doing a play-by-play of the same cylinder (different brand tractor) and they beat the heck out of things driving the shaft out without loosening the compression nut. If you follow the instructions and loosen the compression nut first, no beating is necessary (some slight tapping is all). Retract the cylinder and remove the elbow at the bottom end of the tube. With a bar or tire iron, spin the shaft until you see the recessed hole in the compression nut down in the inlet hole. Drop a proper sized bolt or pin punch or round stock in there and crank on the shaft (counter-clock-wise) four full turns or so. Then you have to get the wire out of the other end that locks the cap on. If you spin the cap while watching the slot, you should see the end of the wire come into view. Use an awl or small screwdriver to lift the end of the wire out of the slot enough so you can back the wire out. Once the wire starts coming out you'll eventually get to the other end which will be bent at a 90 degree angle and in a little hole. Should wiggle right out. Then the fun starts pulling the shaft out. Be sure to wrap a rag over the shaft end inlet in case there is still oil in there. With a bar in the pin hole of the shaft you should be able to yank it out of there. Good luck !!

 

[toukow]

I've done both of my bucket cylinders. The first one (not knowing what I was really doing) was a piece of cake, the second one was a royal pain due to rust in the wire slot on the cap end. Saw a YouTube video doing a play-by-play of the same cylinder (different brand tractor) and they beat the heck out of things driving the shaft out without loosening the compression nut. If you follow the instructions and loosen the compression nut first, no beating is necessary (some slight tapping is all). Retract the cylinder and remove the elbow at the bottom end of the tube. With a bar or tire iron, spin the shaft until you see the recessed hole in the compression nut down in the inlet hole. Drop a proper sized bolt or pin punch or round stock in there and crank on the shaft (counter-clock-wise) four full turns or so. Then you have to get the wire out of the other end that locks the cap on. If you spin the cap while watching the slot, you should see the end of the wire come into view. Use an awl or small screwdriver to lift the end of the wire out of the slot enough so you can back the wire out. Once the wire starts coming out you'll eventually get to the other end which will be bent at a 90 degree angle and in a little hole. Should wiggle right out. Then the fun starts pulling the shaft out. Be sure to wrap a rag over the shaft end inlet in case there is still oil in there. With a bar in the pin hole of the shaft you should be able to yank it out of there. Good luck !!

Thanks for the write-up nsmithnd. I do not understand the warning note in the directions at the link which states to not pull the v-pack across the o-ring groove, as damage might occur. And there are two sets of v-packs- #5 and #11? It reads as if you pull the shaft out until the piston contacts the head, and tap until item #6 pops out. I do not see how you can remove the shaft without the v-pack crossing the o-ring groove. Or is it saying to make sure the v-packs are pulled out to a position inside of the head #6 prior to removal of #6, then the v-packs do not have to go across the o-ring groove when pulling it out? I guess that makes sense reading the steps of reassembly.

I hadn't noticed that the instructions at the link do not have complete reassembly directions. I will infer just do it the opposite as disassembly and no special steps are involved. Again, I'd like to know what manual the original poster was using. Thanks, Dean

 

[J_J]

There may be plastic spacers that fill the groove for easy removal and insertion..

Check your o-ring kit, and if not, ask your hyd guy

 

[nsmithnd]

Went to messicks.com and Parts Diagrams > New Holland Agriculture and typed 770A in the search area.
My bucket cylinders did not match the posted diagram, they match the messick diagram for the "Double Acting Bucket Cylinder".
The diagram in the post looks like the lift cylinder when comparing to the messicks diagrams.
My bucket cylinders had grooves machined in the head for the various o-rings and seals, the only "v-pack" per-say was on the piston end.

The head will come off with the shaft and piston when pulled out, so not sure what they meant by their warning.
Once it's out, the nut and piston are easily removed and the head should slide right off.
Maybe they just don't want you to remove the nut entirely and leave the guts of the piston end in the cylinder (only way I can think of that the shaft could come out by itself).

I just took the head and piston (with all seals and o-rings still in place) to the hydraulic shop and they sized them up one-by-one.
With my cylinders, there was a "very" sharp machined edge on the thread end of the shaft.
Before I re-assembled, I used a little jewelers file to knock it down a hair to prevent cutting anything.

The only scary part about re-assembly was getting the shaft back through the head without damaging anything.
The seal pack on the piston end will go back into the cylinder easy if you don't over-tighten the nut.
Leave the final tightening as the last step and use the bolt or round-stock through the inlet hole to tighten it.

 

[toukow]

Went to messicks.com and Parts Diagrams > New Holland Agriculture and typed 770A in the search area.
My bucket cylinders did not match the posted diagram, they match the messick diagram for the "Double Acting Bucket Cylinder".
The diagram in the post looks like the lift cylinder when comparing to the messicks diagrams.
My bucket cylinders had grooves machined in the head for the various o-rings and seals, the only "v-pack" per-say was on the piston end.

The head will come off with the shaft and piston when pulled out, so not sure what they meant by their warning.
Once it's out, the nut and piston are easily removed and the head should slide right off.
Maybe they just don't want you to remove the nut entirely and leave the guts of the piston end in the cylinder (only way I can think of that the shaft could come out by itself).

I just took the head and piston (with all seals and o-rings still in place) to the hydraulic shop and they sized them up one-by-one.
With my cylinders, there was a "very" sharp machined edge on the thread end of the shaft.
Before I re-assembled, I used a little jewelers file to knock it down a hair to prevent cutting anything.

The only scary part about re-assembly was getting the shaft back through the head without damaging anything.
The seal pack on the piston end will go back into the cylinder easy if you don't over-tighten the nut.
Leave the final tightening as the last step and use the bolt or round-stock through the inlet hole to tighten it.

Thanks for the reference to Messicks as I've never used them. I have found the same in that mine (tilt cylinder) doesn't match the diagram posted for certain aspects, and does match the diagram you referenced and I've attached.

I'm having a hard time with items #7/#8 and have attached a photo. Mine is a seal, not a 'leather washer' and 'O-ring' as the Messicks diagram calls out. I'm talking about the #7, #8 adjacent to the cap #2. It goes inside the cap at about the location that the o-ring goes on the outside of the cap. Note that mine is actually two parts- the seal and a thin o-ring which keeps the seal expanded.

Did your kit come with an O-ring and a washer for these parts, or a seal as shown in the photo? I'd much rather install the O-ring/washer. If yours has the seal like I show in the photo, got any advice on how to insert it into the interior groove? If it's bent too much, the o-ring wants to come out of the seal. It seems to match the rotten one that I removed, and appears to be why mine was leaking. Thanks for your time, Dean

Edit: When I say it matches the previous seal, not exactly. It seems larger than the previous seal, but similar in design. I'm regretting not buying the Ford kit for this. I'll try and find o-ring and washer similar to the others shown in the diagram on the right.

 

[nsmithnd]

Thanks for the reference to Messicks as I've never used them. I have found the same in that mine (tilt cylinder) doesn't match the diagram posted for certain aspects, and does match the diagram you referenced and I've attached.

I'm having a hard time with items #7/#8 and have attached a photo. Mine is a seal, not a 'leather washer' and 'O-ring' as the Messicks diagram calls out. I'm talking about the #7, #8 adjacent to the cap #2. It goes inside the cap at about the location that the o-ring goes on the outside of the cap. Note that mine is actually two parts- the seal and a thin o-ring which keeps the seal expanded.

Did your kit come with an O-ring and a washer for these parts, or a seal as shown in the photo? I'd much rather install the O-ring/washer. If yours has the seal like I show in the photo, got any advice on how to insert it into the interior groove? If it's bent too much, the o-ring wants to come out of the seal. It seems to match the rotten one that I removed, and appears to be why mine was leaking. Thanks for your time, Dean

Edit: When I say it matches the previous seal, not exactly. It seems larger than the previous seal, but similar in design. I'm regretting not buying the Ford kit for this. I'll try and find o-ring and washer similar to the others shown in the diagram on the right.

Sorry, I don't recall. I took a look in the (messy) garage for the old 0-rings and seals and didn't find them.
The local hydraulic shop pieced the kits together. They had a large peg-board covered with zip-lock bags of parts and they just walked along and grabbed what they needed (got the impression they could have found them with their eyes closed). With the first cylinder, the guy just installed them all for me and stacked up the v-pack in the proper order and zip-tied it for me. Second one I was on my own and actually ended up having to go back because I messed one up (maybe the one you are questioning).