Frame mount BH..VS.. TPH BH - which way to go ???

dpl96 · Feb 1, 2005

Hey guys needing some feedback on backhoes for a 224. The TPH hoe is very attractive for it's ease of on/off but are there concerns that it will strain the tractor more than a convential frame mounted model?

newt88 · Feb 1, 2005

A sub frame or frame mount is always a good idea for a backhoe attachment. You may loose a little ground clearance and 30 min. on/off time with a frame type mount, but in the long run it saves wear and tear on the hoe and the tractor.
good luck

JohnS · Feb 1, 2005

If you search in the TBN implements forum you should find a number threads on the merits of frame vs 3pt hoes.

IMHO, on 200 series Jinmas, I would only go with a 3pt hoe, if it was a light duty one. The Guilian (sp?) or Jinma hoe would be too much power/weight for the 3pt. Even with the frame mount, the hoe has the ability to move the tractor all around, and flex the stock frame. It is even recommended to "beef up" the stock frame. Again, my opinion, and I do know people that have used these hoes with 3pt. Outside of the Jinma hoe, you probably have to get your own frame made. If you look at similar sized big three tractors, the recommended hoes are usually smaller than the Jinma/Guilian, and many times frame mounted.

The bellhousing on the 200 series Jinma is not indestructable. I have seen pictures and communicated with an owner that had one break. This happened with a fel/hoe combo, (hoe was frame mount) but it broke during a fel operation. It is not clear if it was a bad casting, unintentional abuse, or fel not have rear axle support, or combinations of. Just pointing out there are real physical limits.

dpl96 · Feb 1, 2005

I've been e-mailing Tractor Connection and they sell a 3-point hoe with their package. The crate package price with a ZL20 loader and tph hoe is very attractive. I would also like to pick up a rear blade and boom pole. I've also e-mailed other dealers that are regularly mentioned on here and have yet ran across a single one that isnt willing and ready to answer my questions and assist me in making the best informed decisions I can - as a matter of a fact one e-mailed back encouraging me to really dive into this website and CTOA to help in answering some of my own concerns. It is heartening to see so many Jinma owners ready to help and share their "grey matter" with others. **** who knows - I might be one of them soon !

bluechip · Feb 1, 2005

If you are going to use a three point backhoe, I highly suggest you use a Koyker loader or other loader with rear axle supports. (In fact this is a good idea even if you don't use a backhoe).

dpl96 · Feb 2, 2005

(BLUECHIP) - If I decide to stick with the China loader I intend to modify the ladder frame as detailed at Tractor Connection. So with that knowledge do you still recommend the Koyker ? Thanks for the help. Doug

JohnS · Feb 2, 2005

The ladder frame mod is to specificly address issues with the Jinma factory back hoe frame and flexing of frame. It does not address issues with FEL support. Many US made fels for compact tractors include a rear axle support (like Koyker), such that some of the forces are applied to the support and to rear axle, taking some off the bell housing/transmission. The backhoe mount to the fel frame has a pin, so it will pivot and not provide support for the fel. It does move forces off the back of the tractor, and applies them further up the tractor frame. Again taking some of the weight/stress of the hoe, off of the bell housing/transmission. You can make a rear axle support for a ZL20, but that will not make it as good as the Koyker FEL. With compact tractors with fels and hoes, adds allot of weight and stress to a tractor. It can use all the support it can get /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

dieseln · Feb 6, 2005

dpl - here's my thoughts - i'm a new tractor owner (284LE). I got it in 9/04 an now have about 70hrs on it. I went with the ZL20 FEL and a Woods Groundbreaker 6500 3pth BH. I had read many concerns about 3pt vs frame mount. I've had no problems with it. I am however very aware that the BH can way overpower the tractor. I had never operated a BH or a tractor before. My first job with it was a 400' trench that had to be 4' deep. It performed flawlessly and I learned how to use a BH.

I think the ZL20 was a good choice for me. I primarily use my tractor for farm related work - moving manure, gravel, hay bales, top soil and occasionally BIG logs 20-30" dia x 10'. I done a fair amount of "digging with the FEL". I scrape down 1-2" at a time and try not to let it go deep - it works great. The frame reinforcements I've seen posted make good sense to me. I've never removed BH - it makes a great counterweight for the loaded FEL.

Someday I may fabricate the FEL/Frame brace (rear axle support). As far as the 3pt hitch mounted BH - I'm happy with it -BUT- I'm always very careful/respectful with it.

Bottom line - take it slow and easy and they will do the job safely.

bluechip · Feb 6, 2005

The Koyker backhoe (Woods is same) has what I think is as good a design to attach to a three point as is possilble, with locking bars to the lift arm and linkage to the drawbar to prevent bouncing. The Chinese three point requires some custom fabrication of brackets to accomplish some rigidity in attachment to the tractor. So I would recommend a Koyker Hoe with a Koyker laoder unless the cost is just too far over your budget.