Oil & Fuel Fuel Injectors and Pinging

[Eric5444]

Here's an issue that has come up for my 1610D that might be applicable to a number of others. The tractor seems in lovely shape but seemed kind of noisy, even for a Yanmar, from the beginning. I've been trying to identify the problem--and I suspect there is one--and have come up with the idea that the injectors might be worn or dirty.

The symptoms are that the engine pings a fair bit when first started. This largely goes away as it gets warmer, although it can still be found in a certain rpm range (I think around 1200). That part might be fairly normal for a Yanmar. What strikes me as less normal is that even when reasonably warm it pings when going up hill, again in certain rpm ranges. My older 1300D is nowhere near the tractor this one is but it doesn't ping in this way, which is what makes me think it is a problem.

I called the local John Deere dealer and their service guy was kind enough to talk about the issue. He said it might be the injectors, noting that they routinely replace them during a major tune-up because they were so cheap (twenty-some dollars each, he indicated).

What do you guys think? Is this the likely cause of the "problem"? Is it a problem at all? Should we all be replacing injectors more frequently than it seems we do? Thanks in advance for your help.

Eric

 

[TBrad]

If the''ping'' gets more noticeable under load, you should remove injectors and have them ckd by a good diesel injection shop. They can ck at what pressure they open and adjust with shims as necessary to get them in the proper range. I like to test new injectors before installing as I've seen a few vary enough to cause a problem. Sort of like ckg gap on new spark plugs before installing in gas engine.There are other things ,such as timing, carbon buildup,and fuel quality that may contribute to these symptoms,but the injectors are the usual suspects.

 

[kayssupply]

Where do these guys get injectors for $20? The last one I needed was $102 from JD and $98 from Yanmar.

 

[roger_scotty]

That price does sound a little low. Most of the diesel injectors I've seen are priced quite a bit higher. In fact, as friendly as the JD mechanic was, I'd be inclined to take his mechanical knowledge with a grain of salt. At least check up on his story. I doubt that any reputable shop routinely replaces diesel injectors.
Sometimes a mechanic will injectors to clean and pattern them. Maybe that is what he meant. I would recommend that you do that at any generic diesel shop. You will need the spray pressures from the shop manual.
What's the price for a set of new seals and gaskets for cleaning up the old injectors? Would that be about $20?
I'm still confused by Eric's "pinging" sound. My old two cylinder YM165 has a loud diesel knock, but it doesn't ping...at least if it was pinging then I couldn't hear it over the knock anyway.
The injector sounds like a possibility, but my first thought would be to change the fuel out to make sure it didn't accidentally have some gasoline in it. Then the injectors, and while they are out the mechanic can peer in there for carbon build up and do a compression test too. A lot of diagnosis for not much money.

 

[Eric5444]

Thanks for your help everyone. It sounds like I need to get the injectors tested. I should mention, in response to Roger's last message, that the "pinging" only sounds that way with earprotection on. Sounds more like a knock with them off. Guess I thought of it as the equivalent of a "ping" for a diesel.

As to getting everything checked at a generic diesel shop, I'm not sure what that is or if we have the equivalent around here. Does that mean a place that handles diesel trucks? Will have to check it out.

Then as to cost perhaps he was quoting me only the price for the gaskets and such, though it didn't sound like that. From what everyone has written, though, it sounds as though it is likely the release pressure of the injectors can be adjusted. I'm not sure when one needs new ones, though, since some messages also speak of whether the spray pattern is good. Is that just a matter of cleaning or do they wear out so that new one's are needed?

Anyway, thanks again for your advice.

Eric

 

[roger_scotty]

There is usually a diesel pump and injector shop in each large city. I've also seen some on the web. Injectors are rebuildable for about the cost of new ones. They do wear out, but take thousands of hours....though dirty fuel and carbon buildup could shorten their life.

 

[normde2001]

Eric, if we go back to your original post and substitute the word "knocking" for your word "pinging", I would guess that you are looking for problems where none really exist. That exactly describes the way my YM2000B sounds, and as far as I'm concerned it runs great, except for the moment. The left rear tire fairly suddenly ran out of air. Bad valve.

 

[TBrad]

Norm,you're right about the 2 cyl. knock in your 2000B.Its music to my ears too. Also a sign of good compression,but the 3T75 in Eric's 1610 should run much quieter than a 2 cyl.if everything is in good condition and working properly.If one or more injectors are breaking too soon,it will cause a knock (ping?) that is distinguishable from the normal sound of these engines. It results in the fuel being injected too soon (timing) causing pre-ignition and also fuel not being atomized well enough (pattern)as injectors are opening before pressure reaches desired level. Around 2000psi is ok, but all 3 need to be the same. This problem can cause a lot of stress on engine if its working hard and its easily corrected.

 

[Eric5444]

Norm--I'm familiar with the usual "Yanmar hammer" from my 1300D, which I've learned to discount. This seems a little different, as "TBrad" suggests, partly because the 3 cylinder 1610D is basically smoother but also because it seems as though only one cylinder is doing it, or at least not all of them. Thanks for your explanation, TBrad, which makes sense to me. It also suggests that I'd better get it fixed rather than live with it too long and harm the engine. There is a Yanmar dealer nearby so I'll try that though in the longer run I'll be on the lookout for the sort of generic pump and injector repair place mentioned by others.

Eric