G6200H Won't go forward any more, GOES in REVERSE just fine, Please HELP!

[frankc]

Hi everyone, I have an 88 G6200H that has 490 orig. hours, I've babied this thing and it has been well cared for! Runs and cuts and still looks like brand new. Never had one issue with it! Over the weekend I was mowing and It stopped going forward to back up and go around a tree and when I pushed the pedal to the forward position again it seems as if it's not getting enough fluid from the pump to drive forward any longer. It has a hydraulic lift for the deck that still works just fine, and it goes in reverse just fine, it just won't go forward any longer??? I know the pump has to be still working or the hydraulics and reverse wouldn't work! I pulled the deck from under the machine and looked to make sure all the linkages from the pedal are connected and operating the vane gate fully, they are. The pedal moves the directional gate on the hydro pump to the full position as it always has, I don't see any problems at all underneath. I changed the hydraulic fluid and the filter 150 hrs ago. If I wasn't running the machine myself when it quit, I'd never believe this happened this way, It didn't and still doesn't make any odd noises and the tractor seems as good as it always has been, just won't go forward any longer.
Is anyone familiar with how that gate valve in the pump operates inside the housing?? All I can think is that something inside the housing broke, but it comes back to neutral just fine?? Really stumped and frustrated, I have quite a bit of mechanical knowledge and also quite alot of Kubota knowledge, this is one machine I figured would outlast me!!! Any help with this at all, I'd appreciate. Unfortunately, this is going to require someone with some internals experience to help me, I am 100% sure that this is NOT an external adjustment issue.

thanks in advance. Frank

 

[art]

Frank, I think you will have to remove the fender and seat deck to get into it enough. I don't have a service manual on it handy and the parts break down don't give me what I was hoping to see. On many of the hydro's they have two pop-it valves that run the forward and reverse. with the cadet's we would just change there positions to be sure that was the problem.

The parts breakdown doesn't show them on this unit. I do believe that might be the issue!

 

[frankc]

Thanks for the response Art, I've been digging today and think that the Hydro trans used in this model is an Eaton Model 11. It doesn't appear that there is an external overide button to manually reset the check valves. I have this terrible feeling that the forward drive check valve is sticking. Sometimes I just want to kick the dog!!! I am a maintenance maniac, always changing fluids and filter usually before prescribed, this thing should never have quit with these few hours and the care it's gotten, it still looks new. You aren't aware of any type of cleaning solvent that can be added to maybe free up a sticking internal part would you??? I'd hate to have to tear this machine apart, to take the pump out but it's looking more like that may be the case. Anyone have any other suggestions???

 

[frankc]

Just Bumping to the top to see if there is anyone out there that's ever opened up an EATON Model 1100 Hydrostatic pump. I haven't and sure could use some pointers. I played with the machine a little last night, kept jabbing the forward pedal to see if by some lucky chance I could get whatever is sticking in the pump to free itself, NO LUCK!

But, to be clearer about the issue. When I do push the forward pedal, the pump does give you that hydro whine but louder than normal. If I rev the mover to max it will drive the machine forward on pavement if I'm not sitting on it. In other words, it's not as if the pump isn't recognizing that I pushed the pedal to the forward position, it's just not getting enough fluid (I think) to actually drive the unit forward. Still operates the Hydraulic lift and goes like **** in Reverse.

I realize I'm probably destined to tearing this machine down, it's so mint that, that alone has me ill. But, if that is what it takes so be it. What would help me now is any "Don't do that's" which I'm not aware of since I've never torn into a hydro pump before. I did determine it's a Eaton Model 1100-046 and I do have the service/rebuild manual for that unit now. It doesn't look to terribly difficult, but again that's from someone who hasn't been there before. Any help is appreciated.
Frank

 

[frankc]

Thanks for the response KubotaFan.

This machine is 20+ years old, and I didn't buy it new from the local dealer. Matter of fact, I have never bought a new machine from them or even any of the used machines I have. I have bought parts from them, but have always done all of my own service work. I guess what I'm trying to say is that they have no reason to help me. Due to the nature of this problem, I don't think that they would be able to tell me anything other than bring it to us and we'll take a look at it. I am confident enough in my own abilities that I have eliminated any external physical issue that would be causing this problem and that they would have to pull the pump and take it apart to find out the real cause of the failure. Do they know more about these pumps than I? I would certainly hope so!

But, although it may sound somewhat unappreciative, everytime I let someone else touch one of my cars, generators, tractors, etc.etc.etc. I always end up cleaning up after them or re-fixing their work. Even though I have zero personal knowledge of the inside workings of this pump, I still feel with some guidance that I will do a better job fixing the problem than someone else.

I hope that doesn't sound bad! I do know people that I trust with certain things, but I don't have anyone personnally that I know who is a Hydrostatic pump repair person. Thus that's why I've asked the group if there is anyone who's been into one of these and can just help eliminate any "Gotcha's" that I'm not aware of yet.

Frank

 

[KennyV]

Frank...
You may already have this but if not this is the break down of the 11...
http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/7-402.pdf
Your problem is on page 22.
Eaton pumps are nice well engineered packages, I have two of their pumps on my Kubota diesel powered ZTR. I had to replace them once and took one apart, not imposable but a definite challenge.
I know what you are talking about as to others working on your stuff... generally leaves a lot to be desired.
Good luck, KennyV

 

[frankc]

Thanks for the link Kenny, I did already find that document and used the troubleshoot chart that you referenced to determine that I probably have a stuck check valve or acceleration valve. I'm working with Motion Industries to try to get those parts before I tear into it.

I have to say, as fanatical as I am with maintenance I am disappointed this happened. For a 22 year old machine, if I repainted the wheels, you could roll this thing onto the show room floor again. Not a scratch in the original paint, fluid is so clean it's hard to see the level on the stick, never left outside in the weather. I see these machines on ebay and such that look like they've been in a war zone and they still are running with thousands of hours. This one has 490 babied hours and quits. I guess I just have poor luck sometimes.

The one thing that worries me a little about the disassembly is when removing the MOTOR ROTOR ASSEMBLY. The instructions are very clear not to allow the balls to fall out of the original bores. Looking at how this pump bolts to the transmission housing in the tractor I'm guessing that there may not be a BODY/COVER as depicted in the general rebuild sheet. So, when I unbolt this from the housing and try to seperate it from the housing is the Motor Rotor Assy. already going to be exposed and possibly allow for the Ball Pistons to fall out??? It's little nuances like this that would be helpful to know about before hand.

Anyway thanks for the help and wish me luck.

Frank

 

[powerstroke444e]

I have worked on a few of these and would suggest a few quick test. 1st thing is take the rear fenders off very to do then put the hydro peddle back on and check to make sure that the drive shaft is still spinning? as this model had a habit of the splines on the drive shave going bad. Second I would check to make sure the brake is not hanging up the machine should roll . I would think that it is not a hydro issue as much as a bearing or shaft. Then I would take the strainer out and see if it is plugged.

 

[KennyV]

My 11 series Eaton are just the pumps, they then drive nickols wheelmotors. I didn't have to work with the transmission part. The reason you do hot want the balls to randomly fall out is, (as you no doubt already know) they have worn into their own respective bores... don't want to mis match them.
Post back as you progress, I think you will breeze through this, KennyV

 

[frankc]

Thanks for the responses guys, appretiate the time spent thinking about my issue!!!!

Powerstroke, not a brake issue, machine goes just fine in reverse and rolls forward if pushed manually without issue. Understand Propeller shaft issue, but if this was not spinning properly, I wouldn't have reverse either.

Kenny, Thanks for the input. I'm not really to nervous about the actual task, looks pretty straight forward really. But, it's not easy or quick to get parts for these. I'm looking at 4 weeks delivery time on some of the accelerator Valve body pieces. I'm banking on one of those as either the spring broke, hung up or god knows a lone piece of dirt is preventing it's movement. Anyway, when I get all the parts and tear into it, I'll repost my findings.

Generally, I'm quite amazed that all the searching on this site I did for anything to do with HST, Hydrostat, Eaton Hydro came up with VERY LITTLE actual data. I can't be the only chump that had a Hydro failure on an EATON pump, CAN I???? I'm beginning to think the BLACK CLOUD is just always camped over my head.

Frank