GC2410 Quit While Running, No Juice to Start

[mgstevens]

Hey Owners, Moments ago, I was running my GC2410 and it just died. Then I see no juice for the starting circuit. There is power to the lights/flashers, but when I turn the key, no lights on dash, no fuel pump sound, no crank. My seat and neutral switches have been tied off by the previous owner, and the PTO clutch switch does not seem to be actually contacted by the PTO clutch mechanism, but in each case, manually activating the switch (to create the run condition) produces no result. The ignition is now the only switch I'm thinking that can affect all the items (dash lights, fuel pump and starter) as turning the key acts like you haven't done so. Tested the 40A main fuse for continuity and it is good. Operators manual for both conditions (died & no start) shows "Broken neutral switch" as a potential cause. The solution: See Dealer.

Any other ideas? Is there a way to bypass this neutral switch to test? Could the ignition switch cause this. Turning the key brings nothing to life.

Thanks.

 

[ray66v]

Although the 2400 series hasn't been plagued with the ignition switch issues the 2300's have, I would not rule that out.

If you try and start the tractor with the transmission engaged, (not in neutral), the dash still lights up. So, I'm not sure how the neutral switch could be your problem.

Safety switches are either normally open, or normally closed switches that allow, or disallow power to go through a loop. It usually doesn't take long to figure out the function with a continuity tester, especially if you have the wiring diagram.

You could also check your grounds, and all the larger wires to make sure there are no damaged, or broken wires.

 

[mgstevens]

Although the 2400 series hasn't been plagued with the ignition switch issues the 2300's have, I would not rule that out.

If you try and start the tractor with the transmission engaged, (not in neutral), the dash still lights up. So, I'm not sure how the neutral switch could be your problem.

Safety switches are either normally open, or normally closed switches that allow, or disallow power to go through a loop. It usually doesn't take long to figure out the function with a continuity tester, especially if you have the wiring diagram.

You could also check your grounds, and all the larger wires to make sure there are no damaged, or broken wires.

Yes, I need to understand what functions the safety switches affect. It looks like they only cut out the starter when opened. That leaves the ignition. The resulting condition is akin to not turning the key at all. Nothing at all lights up, no fuel pump clicks, no start. I did recently look at all the grounds and all appear clean and tight. I also tested the main fuse for continuity and it's good.

I was just looking at the outside of the ignition switch and am wondering how to remove the retaining collar. I will remove the mesh below it and examine the connections. More and more it seems that is the only switch that could both cut the power flow to the fuel pump while running, stopping the engine, and produce the current dead dash/fuel pump effect. Does anyone have experience with the ignition switch?

Once I dig in, it may become obvious. Hard wired or removable connections? If connectors, the constant vibration could have knocked a lead off. That would be the best possible outcome, and if not, then a switch fail, which is an order from the dealer.

However, I don't want to get ahead of myself...

 

[radioman]

did you try rocking the hst pedal to make sure its centered, pull the pto handle back all the way while trying to start? perhaps the tied off switches rubbed the wires to the point it cut thru? I'd pull all the tied off safety switches and return it back to normal and check the switch itself and make sure its still functions.

 

[mgstevens]

did you try rocking the hst pedal to make sure its centered, pull the pto handle back all the way while trying to start? perhaps the tied off switches rubbed the wires to the point it cut thru? I'd pull all the tied off safety switches and return it back to normal and check the switch itself and make sure its still functions.

After greasing the HST pedals, they return to their resting positions once pressure is removed. PTO handles are in place, and on the wires, there seems to be no problem there. There is a protective sheath over small gauge wires on all the safety switches. The seat switch is zap-strapped, and upon further investigation, the neutral switch was wired closed when one of the two 'legs' of the wing arm broke off and the previous owner wired it into a closed position. That arm will be on the shopping list. In any event, the no power to dash and fuel pump suggests the safety switches are not the issue. I'm researching the ignition/key switch at present.

 

[mgstevens]

I have removed the ignition switch, and the connections are made via a moulded plug - 4 wires, labelled "B", "G", "ACC" and "ST" on the ignition switch side. I created a jumper, which only allows me to connect two of the four at a time.

Is "G" for ground, or glow? Why is there an "ACC" when the lights/flashers work with no key turn? Does that stand for "Accessory?" What does "B" stand for? And while "ST" should be start, how many of these leads need to be jumped to activate the mechanism that the first spot on the key turn activates (dash/fuel pump)? I can only jump two at a time thus far. The "B" and "G" give a small spark when jumped. The others give nothing. In all instances, no dash lights, no fuel pump clicks.

I will consult the schematic in the operators manual to try to answer some of these questions. Dealer service shop call in the morning, which I hope will help. Until then, any experience/ideas appreciated.

 

[DJRussell]

I have a GC 2610, about 10 or 12 years old. About 2 months ago I had a similar situation. I checked the large fuses and all but one of the smaller fuses, since it was difficult to pull due to my wiring an auxiliary line to that fuse. To make a long story slightly shorter, I too was attempting to get to the key switch, had a lot of the panels and various body bits removed. Since it was proving difficult to get to the switch, I finally made the attempt to check the difficult fuse, and you probably can guess it was blown. 20 amp fuse replaced and started and has run fine ever since.

You didn't mention that you had checked all the fuses, so maybe you could and might find one blown.

Regards

Jim

 

[WranglerX]

I have removed the ignition switch, and the connections are made via a moulded plug - 4 wires, labelled "B", "G", "ACC" and "ST" on the ignition switch side. I created a jumper, which only allows me to connect two of the four at a time.

Is "G" for ground, or glow? Why is there an "ACC" when the lights/flashers work with no key turn? Does that stand for "Accessory?" What does "B" stand for? And while "ST" should be start, how many of these leads need to be jumped to activate the mechanism that the first spot on the key turn activates (dash/fuel pump)? I can only jump two at a time thus far. The "B" and "G" give a small spark when jumped. The others give nothing. In all instances, no dash lights, no fuel pump clicks.

I will consult the schematic in the operators manual to try to answer some of these questions. Dealer service shop call in the morning, which I hope will help. Until then, any experience/ideas appreciated.

ST is to starter (relay or solenoid)
G is for glow plugs
B is to battery (note fuse inline)
ACC would probably be power to instrument panel (or assorted do dads that are under key control)...

MY first check would be to see if 12 volts at "B" terminal of switch, if yes, second test would be to see of power at "ACC" terminal with switch on....

Dale

 

[mgstevens]

PARTIALLY SOLVED! With the schematic in hand, I found the single accessory circuit - traced from the ignition switch - that powered all the potential problem sources: fuel pump, safety and seat switches and the dash. I checked the 10A fuse for that circuit and sure enough, it was blown. Replaced it and it blew as soon as I turned the key. Went to get more fuses and decided before toasting any more fuses to check the harnesses going to the safety and seat switches - mostly because this occurred soon after I had been using the backhoe, necessitating the moving of the seat back and front. First harness I checked - the seat harness - was cut in two. BINGO!

I unplugged the harness to isolate the short and put in a fresh fuse, and the dash and fuel pump came to life. YAY! Of course, it wont start that way, so I repaired the harness for the seat switch, tested the switch for continuity, and reinstalled. Sadly, it got me no further. Dash lights up, fuel pump clicks, but no start. Drat!

I'm following the circuits for the other two safety switches to see if they have continuity. The PTO switch was turned on its mount so it was not able to be engaged when the PTO clutch was engaged, so I straightened that out. I will be checking it for continuity, but the tractor was running with it that way, so... The neutral switch harness disappears under the seat assembly into a jungle of linkages, and I haven't found the connect point yet. I will next remove the seat assembly in the hopes that uncovers the harness. If not, it looks like the fender assembly would be next. Hopefully I won't have to go there.

Still miles to go, but the schematic was the key to getting this far.

The non-start suggests one of the safety switches, given that the fuel pump is firing and the short is fixed. Any other ideas on testing the switches or associated potential causes?

One thing I am wondering: I dismantled the ignition switch at first to see if it was broken inside, and there are three spring-loaded copper plates working with the turning mechanism of the switch. I was careful to put everything back the way I found it. But if the issue is not with the safety switches at this point, How could I test that the starter relay is or isn't getting power when the start is engaged by the ignition?

 

[mgstevens]

I have a GC 2610, about 10 or 12 years old. About 2 months ago I had a similar situation. I checked the large fuses and all but one of the smaller fuses, since it was difficult to pull due to my wiring an auxiliary line to that fuse. To make a long story slightly shorter, I too was attempting to get to the key switch, had a lot of the panels and various body bits removed. Since it was proving difficult to get to the switch, I finally made the attempt to check the difficult fuse, and you probably can guess it was blown. 20 amp fuse replaced and started and has run fine ever since.

You didn't mention that you had checked all the fuses, so maybe you could and might find one blown.

Regards

Jim

Interestingly, my 2410 does not have a 20A fuse in the bunch, and the manual I have covers the 2610. I have to two 40A main fuses, and the accessory fuses are all 5, 10 and 15A, all five of them. Any chance someone put a 20A in place of something smaller? You may want to check your manual.

While you were writing I was proving you somewhat correct, except that the short-circuit that was blowing the fuse needed to be found and fixed, nothing as easy as simply replacing it. That is done, but I'm still not able to start. I'm wondering if the short was able to affect (fry) either of the other safety switches, but that is not likely. That should be answered by the continuity testing once I can find the connect points. Then it's the starter relay, and some way to know if that is getting juice, assuming the rest of the issues are solved.