gc2600 repair options

   / gc2600 repair options #31  
If the normal MF approved method of warranty work on this activity is 30 hours labor and your submission is for 5 labor hours . . . Isn't that going to be a glaring contradiction and create MF questions etc. Etc.

I do not know what the normal approved warranty time is. I estimated on what it would take for us to disassemble the entire tractor and reassemble. Earlier I estimated at 30 hours or so. Massey Ferguson does not use flat rate's. They treat each case individually and work with the dealers to cover warranty costs. Unlike most other OEM's who flat rate warranty and the dealer is out money. If MF questions why it took 5 hours than we will show what we did and why we did it. We will also explain the entire situation to MF so they see our rational. The workorder and warranty has not even been submitted to MF yet, so I do not know what they are going to come back with.

The tractor was delivered back to the customer this morning ready to go to work.
 
   / gc2600 repair options #32  
1. The only thing we feel we should have done was to discuss with the customer our method for repairing his tractor. We should have laid out the options of A) 30 hours of labour vs B) 5 hours of labour. But at this point, we still did not know if warranty would be approved based on the repair needed. So, yes, we should have laid the options out. But we still stand by what we did to repair it and feel strongly that we would repair another unit the same way if ever needed.
.

Greetings KingsEquip,

A fair viewpoint on your part as tp what you might ave done differently. And certainly you've been good in stating your case and efforts to us readers as well as yourresponses here to your customer.

So I'd like to return the favor to you . . with respect. Over a 3 decade period I've trained many businesses regarding various communication areas from technical automation/computer to personnel and sales methods.

Your answer was good because you recognized you didn't communicate enough . . . but it also shows a classic miscue business people can make: where you place the emphasis.

In your posts from the beginning I've noticed you continually mention the quality of work and technical skill involved. Very Good communication to us. Each time when you mention your pre-repair communication with the customer could have been better . . I sense its not nearly as importnt an isdue as the technical skill.

In my professional experiences with businesses the problems of customer communication far out rank technical skills. This isn't that technical skills are not vitally important every day a business is open . . but that preparing a customer to make a decision is at least if not more important than the technical skills.

Here's why. You as a business owner/operator has confidence in your businesses skills because you've had experience in theworkers successes . . but the customer has not. And a customer without confidence is a customer nervous, uncertain, and distrusting about his asset (tractor, or other). If you can show a customer why he can feel confident and then allow him to approve the process . . you virtually completely avoid the continual uncertainty that follows as technical work progresses.

As point of an example: if you tallied up any and all of the phone calls and personal contacts with the customer since the work started (including here) . . I'd venture you would have a fair sized number of time. But with only 10% or so of that time spent developing the customer's awareness . . None of the other would have been needed AND asduming technical skills were used . . the customer would have had far less uncertainty and likely a better feeling for the future about your business as well . . and that equals future business too.

I'm not describing handholding customers. I'm describing character and confidence building in your customers.

Here's another really simple example every time a customer comes in to have their oil and filters changed:

". . . . We'll take care of it for you . . and as always because we're hunan, we double check the drain plug is on, filter is tight, and dipstick shows oil before the service person goes to the next jiob. "

Even long time customers. Why is it important? Because it shows you are thinking like a customer. The example above takes 30 seconds to express . . but customers may repeat it to their friends a dozen times.

Now I've had times where business owners or managers laughed at me until I demonstrated to them with a live customer. Every time the customer smiles. I'm not big on forms and signatures except in special work circumstances because on their own they don't build confidence for the customer - they build confidence just for the business. So if you use them , it further increases the pre-work comminication needs.

I've been laughed at too often by first time business clients about this . . and almost all if them became long time clients :)

Respectfully suggested.
 
   / gc2600 repair options #33  
Excellent replies by Kings Equipment! Thank you, sir, for taking the time to state your side.

I could feel for the OP about the repair; it certainly didn't look like it was a normal procedure, in fact downright scary to look at it.

However, I recently had to replace a broken 4WD shift lever on my 2310. I had thought of doing it myself, until I realized that the transmission had to be rotated to vertical before removing the front cover, which meant disassembling the entire rear of the tractor: yep -- driveshaft(s), ROP, seat, fenders, 3PH, fuel tank, hydraulics, ALL linkages & wiring, wheels, frame.

Bottom line, over a thousand dollars US to replace a $30 part, a rather hard pill to swallow. Had I known about the alternative (and had the procedure explained to me beforehand) --cutting the frame and having a professional welder re-weld it-- I would have jumped at it. Thanks for explaining that procedure; I can well understand the logic behind it!

Having been in the business of repairing things for quite a few years, I'd like to say to novagc that, although communication/explanation could perhaps have been better, your repair company, KingsEquip, has my vote of confidence; they ought to have yours, too.

respectfully, ijk
 
   / gc2600 repair options #34  
Excellent replies by Kings Equipment! Thank you, sir, for taking the time.

Irvingj, I'm curious. Welding is an advanced oxidizing process. Strength, distortion, and oxidation are the three things of either cure or problem.

Good welders can make 2 pieces of metal as strong as one. And good welders can control heat and placement distortion too.

But how would you have managed to clean, primer, and coat both the inside and outside of the weld and surroundig area after completion of the welder's job so it wouldn't deteriorate by oxidation from weather moisture or chemical sprays (fertilizers etc.) or salt sprays (winter salt or salt water)?
 
   / gc2600 repair options #35  
Massey Ferguson approved to fix the job based on our wording of what may have happened. This was after we had already disassembled the tractor the way we saw fit. Remember at the time of deciding to disassemble or not, there was no guarantees on whether it would be covered or not. It was not until it was apart and pictures sent to MF that we got the word that it would be covered. I believe if we had of presented the case in a different scenario, than it would have been rejected. We may not even see this thread if that were the case, because than we would be praised for saving 25 hours of labour (or whatever the math equals)...

As a customer-knowing that and having it in writing is what I care most about. If Massey approves the repair that means they are standing by your repair method. Your repairs are worthless without the manufacturers approval, Masseys approval means to us "we got your back" if the repair fails or causes other problems down the road. I personaly dont care about the politics involved in warranty coverage or if a dealership makes money or gets fully compensated by the manufacture-thats your problem not mine(not you specifically). I bought a product that you or my dealer sells so you are the embassadar for us and the go between to us for the manufacturer.

I for one will never do business with the Agco dealer here in Sabattus Maine. Had an issue with vibrration in the driviline and fought tooth and nail with that dealer for months. Finally got sick and tited of them dancing around the problem telling me its normal and in my head and saying stupid things like its a tractor not a Mercedez-called the regional Agco rep and insisted he come down and mediate. Final result is Ago sided with me and said "Yes it is a problem and yes it will be fixed" I felled relieved and vindicated but the fact remains the Dealer should have taken care of it and sided with me!. Will never go back to them for even a filter or grease zerc.
 
   / gc2600 repair options #36  
AxleHub-- If, as KingsEquip said, the welder was a professional, I'm sure the weld was done so that it could very well be at least as strong as original; add a reinforcing plate, and I would never worry about it. I'm no welder, but it's my understanding that MIG/TIG welders are specifically designed to melt the metal in the absence of oxygen.

As far as primer & paint, with steel that thick I wouldn't worry about that either, but would think that would be a fair trade-off for saving several hours of labor. I know on mine, because I occasionally take it over the road in winter (salt), there are quite a few spots where even the factory paint has chipped and there are signs of rust. Just part of living around here, though I do try to rinse it off as often as I can.

It would, however, be nice (as Daigle mentioned), to have M-F's blessing on the repair, but again I wouldn't worry about it if it were mine and I knew that a welder who knew his stuff did the job.
 
   / gc2600 repair options #37  
AxleHub-- If, as KingsEquip said, the welder was a professional, I'm sure the weld was done so that it could very well be at least as strong as original; add a reinforcing plate, and I would never worry about it. I'm no welder, but it's my understanding that MIG/TIG welders are specifically designed to melt the metal in the absence of oxygen.

As far as primer & paint, with steel that thick I wouldn't worry about that either, but would think that would be a fair trade-off for saving several hours of labor. I know on mine, because I occasionally take it over the road in winter (salt), there are quite a few spots where even the factory paint has chipped and there are signs of rust. Just part of living around here, though I do try to rinse it off as often as I can.

It would, however, be nice (as Daigle mentioned), to have M-F's blessing on the repair, but again I wouldn't worry about it if it were mine and I knew that a welder who knew his stuff did the job.

Greetings Irvingj,

There are many "acceptable" welders, some good welders, and even a few great welders. In past times you could judge them by the weld bead consistency. But with so many more advances in equipment its about prep work, strength quality, replacrment of material to avoid size shrinkage, and of course the appearance/size/ and steadiness of the bead.

Prep work includes cleaning the surface of contaminants/rust/paint etc.. I assumed in my post that the welder KingsEquip used is very skilled so I assume the weld is strong and he/she replaced enough metal in the welding process so the dimensional sizes are the same as they were without sacrificing frame metal.

But at that point the welders job is done and you have an area on the inside and the outside that is without paint or primer. Recognize that area is larger than the weld itself. I also assume that this area is difficult to access (at least on the inside).

I'm assuming KingsEquip had found a way to protect the weldment area with primer and paint or a chemical overcoat because they have experience in this area. But you were saying you would have jumped at the process for the repair you had to make . . . and I was pointing out how would someone else do it without KingsEquip's experience and equipment (I assumed KingsEquip had a solution) ?????

My point is . . cutting the frame and putting it back together again is not just welding . . its re-encapsulting the steel (all sides - back/front/top/bottom) to prevent premature deterioration and weakness from developing. Point is . . how do you protect something in a box or backside that you can't get at but moisture and salt and chemical sprays can get at?

Paint chips show surface rust on virgin steel . . but weldment is not virgin steel and bare metal exposed to fertilizers and weed killers and moisture and salts will develop far more rapidly/deeply on untreated non-virgin areas.
 

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