Geothermal system problem

   / Geothermal system problem #1  

wpala

Bronze Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
55
Location
Bruce Mines, Ontario
Tractor
Kubota B2920, Kioti CK30 HST, Kioti RX7320
Hi
we have a geothermal system installed in our house 2 separate furnaces 5 & 3 ton one handles lower level+ garage, 2 upstairs, the problem we have is that system was shut of in the garage while it was being finished and insulated once that was done we started the system and pex pipe froze and leaked under the concrete it destroyed our water pump since the stupid system was design to hooked up to our fresh water supply only to top up the system when needed and since the pipe was leaking the system was constantly taking water from the well also our well dried up fro a while, anyway to make a long story short we are suing the company that installed the system that their design for a northern climate was inadequate (North Ontario) and the lack of proper antifreeze in the system, my argument is that even when system would shut down with the proper antifreeze in the system nothing should happened (burst pex pipe) they clime that we started the garage to late in the season.
My question is who is right and do I have a valid case against them? to repair the system would be 20K -estimate from on another company, I think they are crazy stating that I started the system too late in the season the only thing would happen is the period of getting the slab to worm up would be longer( and cost me more $) but it should have never cause burst pipe, anyone with any thoughts how should I handle this? also on the separate note I think geo system advertise has overblown savings in them our hydro to run those compressors are quite high + they need aux heating elements in the boilers to get the water to a higher temp and keep it at that level, it is very convenient but not cheap especially that far North

Paul.W
 
   / Geothermal system problem #2  
No opinion on who is right or wrong, but $20k to repair is likely cheap compared to legal costs to get it resolved through the courts.
 
   / Geothermal system problem #3  
IMO you need legal advise who is familiar with local laws. If you have a case, you will also need to hire a pro to inspect the system then write a report on the deficiencies.

I'm not sure of what kind of system you have installed as you mentioned a boiler. I'm only familiar with these kinds of systems when associated with heat pumps that draw on the energy stored within a few feet of the ground surface.
 
   / Geothermal system problem
  • Thread Starter
#4  
Our pumps draw heat from the horizontal loops buried 7 feet underground, those are fine, the problem is that they should have installed separate system for the garage with very high concentration of antifreeze but cheap out we had system inspected by other company but they are not interested in representing us in the court this is small town word gets out quickly i guess they don't want to create bad blood between each other and possibly know each other on personal level, but they told us that it wasn't design properly for the climate the system is in
Paul
 
   / Geothermal system problem #5  
As far N as you are, I'd think 7' is not anywhere deep enough to insure consistent heat source year around. Fact that antifreeze is needed says to me consistent heat is not in the picture during the colder times in the winter. The local advise you've received so far, do they think the heat exchanger field should have been deeper?

If you do have a case, you may have to go further away to get a professional evaluation.
 
   / Geothermal system problem #6  
First why are you suing? Did you have no insurance? No general contractor? Who didn't supply heat to the building?

Anti-freeze in an infloor system is a design choice, if you use it you need to increase the pipe sizes or shorten the loops or put bigger pumps in because it doesn't flow as well. In general anti-freeze is only used when absolutely needed as it increases costs. Inside a heated garage is open for design. If we were talking outside in an apron this is different.

As for make up water from your well, it would likely have a backflower preventor and a pressure reducing valve to provide water. Some people isolate this supply but you will have problems with a new system as your vents let air out as the pressure in the loop will drop. Also, if you have electric backup without this low water shutoff could lead to burning out back up elements.

Why did no one notice the well turning on and off? Why does your well not have low water protection if you have such a low water supply well?
 
   / Geothermal system problem #7  
If it ran leaking under the slab long enough to cause the well to die then there (more than likely) would also be issues UNDER the slab that are hidden such as washed out footings or hollowed out (cave) under the floor.

Not many systems put anti-freeze in as mentioned above on top of COST as it is often almost as much as the system hardware to add antifreeze at an amount that would HELP in event it was left to freeze much below 20F.

I would think that the contractor SHOULD/WOULD want to make it right as their name is at issue as word of mouth gets around FAST. However if you left the system turned off trying to save some $ or didn't think it was cold enough to cause issues then you learned an expensive lesson. Tearing out the concrete and relaying everything will cost 2x what the original cost was if not 3 or 4 times as much. Usually the PEX is OK but will crack the floor, concrete or any fittings where the lines Expand with the freezing.

There is a thread here someplace maybe 3 or 4 pages back where someone else had PEX freeze in their pole barn. might look for it for some reference info.



Mark
 

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