Grapple Install on JD 4100

redstatedog · Apr 5, 2009

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Below is my question orginally posted in the wrong manner. Hopefully I have also successfully added a photo that illustrates what I was describing:

Kennyd,

I need your help please! (I apologize in advance to any of my fellow TBNrs if this is the wrong place for my attempt to reach Kennyd but I did not know of a better alternative).

I am not well versed in hydraulics so I will do my best to explain my dilemma.

I have learned a great deal from your expertise because of your excellent posts. Because of you, I purchased a Markham grapple just like yours. I own a JD 4100. I dropped my tractor off at my local Deere dealer for a quote to install the "plumbing" necessary for me to operate my grapple. My challenge is that I want to be able to adequatley explain exactly how I want the mechanic to do the work that will give me the most flexibility and function from my new grapple (and any other attachment that may be open to me in light of this new install).

As part of his initial review of my project and in an effort to provide me with a quote, he showed me a lever/valve (nearly, if not totally indenticle to what you see on a log spliter) to be installed on the right fender after removing the handle from the fender to accomodate it. He plans on "tapping" into the lines that I have at the rear of the tractor...the couplings are on a bracket which are attached to the ROPS (this picture has been shown on many other posts) and run then to valves which he said he would mount on the front right engine panel (I don't know why he would do this instead of mounting it on the arm of the FEL forks as I have seen in all the TBN threads; more versatility?)

This technique I assume would require me to remove my hand from the joystick and then operate the seperate newly installed lever (like on a wood splitter) to open and close the grapple. I want to be able to do EVERYTHING from my joystick. Based on what I have read on TBN, I think this requires an electric component that slips over my joystick and contains a toggle switch. In some of your pictures I see your regular joystick, like mine. In other pictures I see a "curved", wider handle, with skin color buttons on it. As I see different and/or conflicting pictures, I am not exactly sure how you are set up for operating your grapple.

I will visit the Deere dealer Monday morning to review my project with the mechanic. I bought myself a few days before he commenced work and I ended up with something that I may not be happy with.

My question is: Could you please post some elementary directions regarding parts needed and instructions on how to install same so I can share them with the mechanic so I can successfully convey to him exactly what I am looking for in terms of my final result?! I would be most appreciatvie. Perhaps it is just a matter for you to copy and past into a new message from your older messages, the essential directions and pics that I need without the confusion of multiple former and possibly conflicting threads that may be confusing me as they relate to different projects.

I hope this request is clear enough! As I know it won't be cheap, I want to get this install right the first time!!

Thank you in advance.

kennyd · Apr 5, 2009

OK, Now I see you have two post's going...looks like you pasted three times in the other one-so I will reply here since this one is easier to read.

First, what your dealer is proposing WILL work, but is not what you want since you have stated clearly that you want joystick control of the grapple. And that valve he is using is way to big for what you need. I would first get your tractor back home and re-evaluate things...

his technique I assume would require me to remove my hand from the joystick and then operate the seperate newly installed lever (like on a wood splitter) to open and close the grapple. I want to be able to do EVERYTHING from my joystick. Based on what I have read on TBN, I think this requires an electric component that slips over my joystick and contains a toggle switch. In some of your pictures I see your regular joystick, like mine. In other pictures I see a "curved", wider handle, with skin color buttons on it. As I see different and/or conflicting pictures, I am not exactly sure how you are set up for operating your grapple.

Yes, you are correct...what you want is either a "diverter" like I have that basically splits your dump/curl circuit into 2. So when a button is pressed on the joystick handle the left/right movement of the joystick causes the grapple to open/close rather that dump/curl. You have obviously seen my pictures...the joystick handle was added at a later date hence your confusion. You can also view a post by user "jasonl" in which he installed a Fasse diverter setup similar to mine...but different. View it HERE.

I also suggest you search these terms for more reading:
Grapple
Diverter

The other option is what is often called a "3rd function". It is a electrically operated valve that you can mount almost anywhere and operate it from a joystick mounted switch to open/close the grapple. It operates independently so there is no loss of dump/curl control while using it. BUT on JD tractors, it is harder to install because the power beyond line (the hoses that carry fluid to power the valves) are in the lower rear of the tractor and harder to get to.
WR Long is a company that offers both types of valves in a "kit" form so you can install it yourself. Or your dealer should be able to order the Fasse kit like Jason has.

My question is: Could you please post some elementary directions regarding parts needed and instructions on how to install same so I can share them with the mechanic so I can successfully convey to him exactly what I am looking for in terms of my final result?! I would be most appreciatvie. Perhaps it is just a matter for you to copy and past into a new message from your older messages, the essential directions and pics that I need without the confusion of multiple former and possibly conflicting threads that may be confusing me as they relate to different projects.

I think I may have just did that for you...

I really suggest you get your tractor back and re-think some things, as well as trying to do it yourself if you have basic mechanical skills. Hydraulics are nothing to be scared about!

redstatedog · Apr 5, 2009

Thanks Kennyd (and others)

You clarified and put into perspective all my questions perfectively and succinctly. Thanks to all who responded, I now have a handle on all the terms, options and methods. You also confirmed my impressions that maybe the mechanic's suggested approach is not the best for my particular needs. I now know I need to in a different direction to produce my desired result.

Thanks again for your hepful and timely reponse as well as for the lesson in posting etiquette.

kennyd · Apr 5, 2009

You are welcome. Spend your money wisely and get what you want-don't settle for less!

I will guess that your dealer will try to talk you into that valve...if so then take your toys and go home-we will get you through.

joes_427_vette · Apr 8, 2009

As usual............ Kenny, you are the man. I followed yours and others installation of the diverter valve and I must say it is quite slick. Through the years I have gained a little knowledge in many areas but still ask questions. Someone usually has a better idea and hopefully one sees it before going in another direction. Between here and Machine Builders I could wear out the computer. Keep up the good work so the rest of us can continue internet college. jr

Scotty370 · Apr 8, 2009

KennyD- I purchased this diverter/selector valve, for the same application. Looks different than the Fasse, in that it's only got one coil. Any problems that you see before I get it dirty? What about flow thru these things? Not worried about the grapple circuit, just don't want to lose speed to the default loader circuit.
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kennyd · Apr 9, 2009

Scotty370 said:
KennyD- I purchased this diverter/selector valve, for the same application. Looks different than the Fasse, in that it's only got one coil. Any problems that you see before I get it dirty? What about flow thru these things? Not worried about the grapple circuit, just don't want to lose speed to the default loader circuit.
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That is the exact same one I installed on my machine, except it was $150

.

Flow is 8GPM per the specs, so no issues there. You can veiw my thread HERE. Later, I added the joystick handle, pics HERE.

mikefromnh · Apr 9, 2009

Would this be something that would work?

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Like the "fasse" valve JasonL used -- Or am I Lost http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gifI lost?

kennyd · Apr 9, 2009

mikefromnh said:
Would this be something that would work?

Burden Sales Surplus Center Item Detail

Like the "fasse" valve JasonL used -- Or am I Lost http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gifI lost?

Yes, that one will work well also. In fact it's the one I have been recommending because the price has gone up so much on the other one. If you do a search on the model number or "diverter" you will see LOTS of other threads about these.