Grass carp and food chains

[rmorgan]

The recent coyote discussion has got me thinking about food chains, predators, native species vs. imports and the like. A lot of my "rural living" time right now is spent learning and attempting pond/lake management, and I've got a warning for pond owners about triploid grass carp (White Amur). These things do a great job cleaning the bottom of your pond. And then they clean it down to the nub and start yanking things out of the clay/mud, which makes the water cloudy; and then--I swear--they start COMING UP ON SHORE to get things you've planted around the margins or otherwise because they're so hungry. They are non-indiginous and fast growers, 10" to 24" in a year, and I've been through the hi-power pellet gun (Beeman; great machine) and the .22 in the last few days and am moving to the 12-gauge (an 870, by the way) to get rid of them. It's a shame to blow them apart because they are so good at what they do, but they are, I think, flat-out not compatible with good aquatic management. They seem to me to be the lake equivalent of DDT--the habitat influence is unpredictable and potentially extreme--and they grow to 65 lbs (amazing photo at http://archeryworld.com/bows/trophy/people/57.nmpl)

Maybe I'm wrong. Any other experiences with managing these beasts? Any ideas on non-firearm ways to catch them, since they are unbaitable and fast?

Rick

 

[bgott]

I've watched people catch mullet on hooks using hominy as bait. You might give it a try.

 

[ShantyBranch]

They are fun to "stalk" and catch with fly rod and small fly or bread ball. Very tough to catch. There are many fly fisherman who put them up there with bonefish, as far as challenging to catch. Very similar mouth and swimming habits, but even more of a challenge to catch.
You really have to sneak up on them!

Maybe you could invite some bow and arrow fisherman out to the pond. They would probably jump at the chance to get in some target practice.

 

[Youare]

It is intresting, last night while visiting friends who own a 22 acre pond the subject of grass carp and milfoil came up. They have discovered milfoil in their pond. Many of the lakes and ponds in New Hampshire are becoming fouled with milfoil. Our friends said that grass carp will eat milfoil but the State of New Hampshire will not allow them to be brought into the State. Are grass carp effective at combating milfoil, and do they affect the breeding weeds of other local fish?

 

[rmorgan]

Shanty and Brag--thanks for the information re. possibility of hooking them. I'm not much of a fly fisherman but have a friend who is, so maybe I'll bring him out for a tutorial. I thought about bow hunters also, and may call another friend who does that. Randy--Here's a link to a site that rates white amur as "moderately" effective against Eurasian Milfoil. http://home.texoma.net/~ghoenig/carp2.htm. The problem is that they are effective against everything else--I've seen it written that they are an "all or nothing" solution satisfactory only for those ponds or lakes in which zero bottom growth is acceptable. The habitat implications are obvious!

Rick

 

[gmason]

We built a 1ac pond 3 years ago and initially stocked it with bass and bluegill fingerlings. The pond management store where we got the fish said we could put 2-3 STERIL carp in our pond to help keep the grass and weeds out of the pond. They were about 4-5inches when we put them in the pond and are about 12 inches after 2 years. I've actually caught a few on a hook and bobber using a worm.

These are expensive fish at about $13 per fish. I hope I'll never have to take a .22 after them like I just did to a muskrat a few days ago. Talk about something that can tear-up a pond. In 2 days that RAT had knawed-down a dozen catails growning on the edge.
Evective pond management is critical to the long term health of the fish and other wildlife.

Can you throw a cast net over them and drag a few to shore??
But I guess if there not steril, you wouldn't want to take them to someone elses pond either.

gary

 

[JohnS]

A friend of mine has a small hatchery and he sells fish through most of the local county AG programs. He has been offering these fish for a number of years. In NY, they have to be sterile, and a permit is required for stocking. I believe the permit requires a no outlet clause, such that they can not escape. It may limit quantity of fish per acre, too. Over the years, he has relayed numerous 3rd party stories on grass carp. Mostly speaking of the enormous size and people dumping their lawn clippings into ponds for feed, and such. I will ask him if he has ever heard of them "coming a shore", to feed. At first glace, this seems like one of those "far out" things, but carp can survive with very low oxegen levels and we have all probably heard about the "infamous" walking catfish. Interesting.

JohnS

 

[fishman]

Rmorgan,

Grass carp are a good pond management tool if they are triploid or sterile. It allows the pond owner to control nuisance vegetation without resorting to chemicals. I work for TX inland fisheries, and our recommendation is usually to avoid doing either unless you have such a problem with weeds that you can't use your pond for the purposes you intended. Grass carp are relatively non-selective, and will consume most rooted submerged plants. Stocking rate is important. In TX, we recommend 7 per acre max, although other southern states recommend up to 25/acre.

We rarely hear complaints about the grass carp being TOO effective in private waters, but I'm sure it does happen.

BTW, I have eaten grass carp, and they can be very tasty.

 

[fmorgan]

Fishman--

I'm sure you are 100% correct. The 4-5 grass carp we have (in a 3/4 acre pond) are triploid, and so reproduction is not an issue; there just isn't enough forage for them, and so they have resorted to rooting into the bottom (and coming up on shore!) for food. I think the problem was that our local hatchery, which is extremely responsive, reputable and responsible, was just a tad overzealous in terms of recommending a few grass carp for a newly-dug pond which had some algae but no real growth of bottom weeds. Just goes to show how delicate the balances can be, I suppose. I've read elsewhere that they are good table fish, and expect to run my own test in the coming weeks!

 

[ERNIEB]

<font color=blue>I have eaten grass carp, and they can be very tasty</font color=blue>
When I was in Germany, I was stationed in Ansbach, the area around there is called Franconia, a part of Bavaria. They raise carp as a food fish, and it is often served during Fasching(sp?)
I've had that carp, but I'm sure it's a different variety. These grass carp....I don't know. They just don't look very good.
I admit I don't like the darn things. I like to fish for Bass, and carp remove good cover for bass fry.

Ernie