Groomer5 is now on the snow!

[jimgerken]

I have been building snow groomers for about five winters now. The last couple have been roller groomers because I find that mostly I want to pack what falls so it is more dense to support traffic (Wheeled ATVs, walking, down hill sliding, etc.). The past two seasons I finished and tested Groomer4, which was a 31 inch wide roller type. That one was pulled by a tracked CanAm ATV. That was a great small rig and very capable in any amount of snow, super manuverable, dependable. There were a couple things about it that bothered me though. On some of my extreme sidehill trails, the 31 inch roller would occasionally flip over upside down in deep snow because it was a bit too narrow for its CG. Also, the lack of power steering on the ATV bothered my elbows after extensive grooming sessions of several hours each time to cover all our private trails. And, I always made a couple passes to widen the trails out, which took extra time of course.
So last year I sold Groomer4 and began designing and construction of Groomer5, with the intent of making it wider, and pulling it with a tracked Gator with power steering. This has finally all come together, and is working very well. I am now grooming six feet wide in a single pass (up from the four feet of Groomer4 and CanAm), I have power steering, the Gator is warmer with half windshield, I can haul along a buddy to help clear downed trees, the chainsaw and other tools ride in the box neatly, and the roller groomer is wide enough to not have the roll-over tendency that Groomer4 had.
The roller parts of these groomers have been built with snowmobile tracks which are too far worn or torn to be used on sleds anymore, so very low cost. There are a few other tricks to the idea, which make them more effective at packing the air out of snow. Groomer5 is now experimenting with a variable-height toolbar, on which I have mounted Danish tine springs and sweeps as a first pass "tillage" tool. I have a couple more ideas of shapes that will mount on the Danish tine springs instead of the sweeps, and as time goes by I will try those ideas. When the "toolbar" is not being used, it is raised and provides needed weight to the rolling assembly. I guess its time for some pictures. The CanAm and Groomer4 have appeared on TBN before, so may look familiar.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

That's an interesting idea, I'm sure the gator would be a much nicer machine for the task.

How deep of snow can you comfortably pack?
Is there any weight inside the drum?
Do you get it packed enough to drive your tractor on?

 

[cqaigy2]

That looks pretty neat. Forgive my ignorance, but is that done to reduce those two big ruts that get left when vehicles drive on the snow?

 

[jimgerken]

Snow depth: It works out best ( I get the most durable surface) if I get out and roller groom after every 4-6 inch snowfall. I have waited longer and groomed a foot, but it does not pack as well of course.
Weight in drum: Yes, becasue it fills with snow as I go.
Support Tractor? Yup, it sure does. Of course it breaks down with traffic or spinning of tires, its only icey snow. some care is need if operating tractor in woods trails on hills when icey of course.
Reduce ruts? This type of groming is more to prevent the rutting by packing first, before the traffic. The "tillage" bar that I added to this Groomer5 may do some remediation of rutted areas, it is yet untested.

 

[jimgerken]

Used the tracked Gator quite a bit in deeper snow last weekend. Drove it thru as much as 2 feet deep, without problems. The snow was very light and flew all over, and by the end of the day the CVT cooling inlet had inhaled enough snow and melted it that the belt began slipping. So I am going to have to snorkle the CVT cooling air inlet to a location up high under the canopy.
Also, it looks like the engine air cleaner inlet will also need to be snorkled, as some snow ended up inside the air filter too.
Other than these issues, overall it works well. I groomed a local snowmobile trail over plowed ground, which finally had a foot of snow on it to effectively cover the dirt. I let it freeze a day or so and its now really nice. Rode snowmobile over it last night and it is bump free finally.
Sometimes when the snow is too deep (10-12 inches of fluff), the roller stops turning and starts plowing. It is tough to see the roller, so I might need to add some kind of monitor, like a bicycle speedometer or something, to the roller to verify it is turning. If I notice it stops turning, I can stop the Gator, back up a few feet, then take off again to get the roller turning again.

 

[FatTire]

What length of trails do you groom with this?

 

[Tkblacktail]

That is awesome!

 

[jimgerken]

My neighbor has about 16 lineal miles of logging roads / ATV trails on his land. I used to groom pretty much all of it every week. This winter I've been too busy and only groomed it once with the Gator and Groomer5.
Last weekend I finished the two snorkels, one for CVT cooling air inlet, and one for engine air cleaner inlet. Its about time to try it again in the trails. Maybe this weekend.

 

[FatTire]

Sounds great. We are in the midst of a mid-winter warm-up with melt (and mud). Not good for us snow lovers.

 

[jimgerken]

Yes, unfortunately melting here yesterday and today too. But a big winter storm is about to hit tomorrow, then back into the deepfreeze early next week. Too bad it can't settle on a 20 degree temp and stay there, this rollercoaster crap is getting old. I blame Al Gore.

 

[NS Gearhead]

I've just recently taken up walking in the wooded trails behind my house in an effort to fend off the "spare tire". LOL Others in the neighborhood seem to walk them and take their dogs for walks. I'd be interested in packing down the snow to make it easyer for everyone. The old two fourwheeler ruts sure are difficult to walk in! So, I've got a couple questions for ya; why use the sled tracks on the drum surface? Why not something smooth like a lawn roller? Also, before I saw this I was thinking that a tow behind "V" plow would move the middle hump out to where the atvs tires would pack it down... but then the center wouldn't get backed... thoughts on this?

I may have just answered my own question; I could see braking going down hill being difficult if the drum was smooth and wanting to pass you! LOL

 

[jimgerken]

A smooth roller won't turn. Also, I prefer to end up with some texture on the surface, not smooth like a snowmobile groomer leaves it. I find it freezes deeper and stronger if left with texture. And the texture gives some traction too, for feet and tires.
As far as the V plow idea: I guess thats another way to do it. I am trying to keep all the snow on the trail I can, not blade any off. Study sled groomers, they have good ideas too.

 

[mscheer772]

Jimgerken sounds like a cool project.
Have you ever used a cultipacker, did it work?
I have 2 packers, one is a four footer and the other an 8 footer. Do you think these would work, or do you think would end up plowing the snow instead of firming it up.

-Mike-

ps a cultipacker is a round solid cylinder with grooves and serrated blades spaced ever 6-12 inches

 

[FatTire]

The red paint on your G4 looks so good. Don't tell me you got that powder coated?

 

[jimgerken]

Cultipacker- well its worth a try, but I have been leaning toward INCREASING the drum diameter on the next version. Decreasing drum diameter would surely have trouble turning in deep snow, even mine now will occasionally stall in deep snow. And I guess it would end up too heavy too. But try it if you can, and report back, you may be on to something.

Red- It's Rust Oleum High Performance Regal Red in the big can (20 ounce or so?) spray bomb. Nothing special, but several coates over primer. I think the primer was Red Oxide spray primer.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

I'd guess the cultipacker would be both too heavy and too small of diameter for initial packing. It would be interesting to see what it did as a second pass after your G5 and before the freshly packed snow had a chance to freeze solid.

 

[FatTire]

Cultipacker- well its worth a try, but I have been leaning toward INCREASING the drum diameter on the next version. Decreasing drum diameter would surely have trouble turning in deep snow, even mine now will occasionally stall in deep snow. And I guess it would end up too heavy too. But try it if you can, and report back, you may be on to something.

Red- It's Rust Oleum High Performance Regal Red in the big can (20 ounce or so?) spray bomb. Nothing special, but several coates over primer. I think the primer was Red Oxide spray primer.

I'm gonna reset my expectations for what's possible from a rattle can next time I have to paint something...