Hardfacing Skid Shoes

[bob 59912]

I'm making larger area skid shoes for my snow blower and V-plow, since the ground still isn't frozen this year and I use them on a gravel driveway and road.

I'm thinking of hard facing the skid shoes in a waffle pattern, using either stick or Mig welding. Any suggestions on vendor and type of 1/8 rod or wire to use (up to 0.045") for this application?

Also I'm not very good at making straight weld lines on flat plate. Soapstone hasn't worked well for me and I haven't tried the Silver-Streak or Red-Riter welding pencils. I plan to use an aluminum straight edge, if I go MIG, or make a ceramic straight edge from tile, if I use Stick welding, to keep the hard facing pattern somewhat consistent. Thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks

 

[RickB]

I'd say the rough surface created by the hard surfacing process would cause more unwanted disruption of the gravel surface than the benefit of increased wear life would yield. Either build the shoes with a sacrificial bottom plate that can be replaced without too much fuss, or buy AR (abrasion Resistant) plate steel for the shoe bottom, or both. For single-driveway use, mild steel will probably last longer than you expect.

 

[gwdixon]

The waffle pattern is great for dirt because it packs the dirt in the waffle area and the skids ride on dirt instead of the welds.

Gravel is altogether different. It will wear in the waffle area if crushed and around roll like crazy if round (or pea).

Although welding straight lines is not your forte, it may be the best pattern for what you want to do. A weld on each edge and a weld or two down the middle (depending on the width of the shoe) will slide over the gravel easier. Use a strong halogen light close to the surface and it should help seeing the edges and to line up with previous welds.

I use Stoody 31 for the application you are proposing but there are tungsten powder rods available (although very expensive).

The idea by RickB to weld on a sacrificial slide plate has a lot of merit. Just run a few short 7014 or 6013 beads down the both sides in a stitch pattern. They are low penetration rods. Once one of the weld beads wears through, grind off the others and what remains of the sacrificial plate should drop right off. Then weld on new plates.

 

[yomax4]

People I know that have done this simply used a front to back bead pattern laying the beads right next to each other. Single layer only. With Wire you can get a nice flat bead running CO2. Not sure that the waffle pattern would help any but no matter what pattern you use, they will last a lot longer. I made some boat shaped shoes for my atv plow when the stock ones wore out in 2 seasons. I just used Spray Powder with carbide and that was 8 years ago. I have a heavy Boss V plow on my plow truck and did the shoes with Stoody 1105 but 21-31or 35 would work. Some hard surface brands have very little alloy in them so if it's cheap, Could be lower in alloy. Probably only take a pound or so of stick to do the job. I'm not sure what the shoes would cost to replace but if they are cheap, maybe that's best.

 

[PILOON]

Guess I got lucky as I had purchased a cutting edge for a friend's bulldozer and it was about 8" too long.
Being the hoarder that I am I had the perfect materiel for new shoes.
Cutting in half lengthwise made perfect shoes for my gravel drive.
I added regular steel to the ends to form the 'ski tips' leaving the harden steel to contact the gravel roadway.
That cutting edge material is so tough that I still barely notice wear after 3 years of usage.
The finished shoes are about 2.5" wide X 8" long, just perfect for my blower.

 

[yomax4]

Guess I got lucky as I had purchased a cutting edge for a friend's bulldozer and it was about 8" too long.
Being the hoarder that I am I had the perfect materiel for new shoes.
Cutting in half lengthwise made perfect shoes for my gravel drive.
I added regular steel to the ends to form the 'ski tips' leaving the harden steel to contact the gravel roadway.
That cutting edge material is so tough that I still barely notice wear after 3 years of usage.
The finished shoes are about 2.5" wide X 8" long, just perfect for my blower.

I did the same for the back blade on my tractor. I just wanted it to move snow and remove all my gravel. Been good for 5 years or more.

 

[muddstopper]

I dont know the best rods to use or best pattern to use, but at work on plow bladed that dont see nothing but big gravel, they use a diamond tic-tac-toe pattern with spacing between the beads. I can get 2 or 3 years wear out of a set of those blades, and they are in gravel pulling rock every single day.

 

[Mysfyt]

FWIW, my neighbor owns a dragline and has tried everything including Stoody to protect his buckets. He swears he gets the best life out of stainless and it is also cheaper than the hard facing products. I don't remember what type he used, but if you're interested in trying this I will find out for you.

 

[Stimw]

Why not use pieces of a leaf spring for the wear area?
Old leaf springs are easy to get from a junk yard.

 

[PILOON]

Why not use pieces of a leaf spring for the wear area?
Old leaf springs are easy to get from a junk yard.

I wanted some spring stock to re-blade my lever type shear,
Trucks use as wide as 3" and 1/2" thick material.
A local truck suspension shop sold me short lengths at scrap prices.
Springs can be drilled as well ,just go slow and use quality bits and cutting oil.

 

[yomax4]

FWIW, my neighbor owns a dragline and has tried everything including Stoody to protect his buckets. He swears he gets the best life out of stainless and it is also cheaper than the hard facing products. I don't remember what type he used, but if you're interested in trying this I will find out for you.

I'm surprised to hear that high alloy hard surface doesn't hold up as well as stainless. All of the hard surface companies sell hard surface rods that can contain so much carbide that it can't be ground or drilled. Not so with the toughest stainless. Hard to figure.

 

[gwdixon]

One thing that nobody has mentioned yet is that hardfacing one side of a long piece of metal will surely cause warpage. The welded side will end up concave...weld-> )).

Take that into account as you build the skids.

 

[Sodo]

Yes,,,, and it would warp the "wrong" way (if there's no support on the top side). A pic of the shoes and the the size would help the discussion.

Why not,,,,,,, just MIG weld beads on it as best you can with whatever's in the MIG. Use it as an excuse to practice welding straight beads (stick or MIG). This is perhaps the only weld bead practice that can produce a usable item. Leave some evidence of the original surface (depressions) so you can see how it's wearing next year. Run an angle grinder over it, flatten it some. Fill in the spots you can't abide with, knock down the high spots, and go spread some ER-70 on the driveway.

You have a welder, and a grinder, this job is not one that needs to be optimized. Nobody's gonna come after you or your reputation if it appears the job will only last 2 years instead of 5. And if it does then 2 years from now you have another 20 minute, non-critical welding task that will get you another 2 years. Not a big risk, and no need to invest gasoline or buy special rods, etc.

Over the next 2 years you may run across a leaf spring or some other hard shoe material you can add on.

 

[Shield Arc]

Over the years I've had good luck with Stoody 31 hard facing. I use to get a steady diet of hard facing these things.

 

[Mysfyt]

Just got off the phone with my neighbor and he said he used 309 ss vs the Stoody build up. He did not use the carbide/vanadium stuff. Don't flame me for this, just passing on what worked for him.

 

[bob 59912]

Thanks for the suggestions.

The skid shoes will have a square contact surface of 8 to 12" max. I'll use 3/8" steel plate for the base and 2" wide 3/8" flat stock for the sides. This gives a ramp rise and run of 1.4" each. I made a cardboard mock-up of the compound miter angle to make sure I calculated the angles correctly. I plan on only cutting the miter angle, as not cutting the bevel angle leaves a nice gap for the weld joint on the outside.

Will have to see how much the sides prevent warping when hardfacing is just on one side

I like the idea of hardfacing vs. going with AR steel, as I have other tillage attachments where I can use it. AR 360 steel has a Rockwell C hardness (HRC) of 39. Most of the hard facing rods in the category of "moderate to severe abrasion, with moderate impact" have HRC values in the range of 45 to 60. Some extreme abrasion hardfacing rods have up to 3x the abrasion resistant, however they are more sensitive to impact and pricey. HRC values for stainless steels that I could find on the net are 20-30. High nickel alloys like Iconel had HRC of 20-35.

Looking into the moderate abrasion / moderate impact Stoody hardfacing rods suggested (31, 33 and 35) I was pleased to see they were in the $11-15 range for 10lbs. Stoody also was the one vendor I found to have FCAW-G wire (965-G and 101 HC) in 5 and 10 lbs spools vs. 25 to 33 lbs spools for the other companies. Stoody was also the only one to have hardfacing wire in 0.035". The wire was about twice the cost per pound vs. rod.

Hobart had two rods that matched my needs: Hardalloy 140 ($8 per pound) and Hardalloy 155. Lincoln had three rods that matched my needs: Wearshield 44, Wearshield ME, and Wearshield 60 all for a little less than $10 per pound for 1/8" rod in a 10 lbs package. These rods had similar % compositions to Stoody rods. Now it will be interesting to see what I can find locally.

Thanks for the advice on the hardfacing pattern. I think I will go with parallel lines in the direction of travel for the V-plow skid, instead of the waffle pattern. I've seen a lot of diamond pattern as well, so I might try that on the snowblower skid shoes.

 

[Arc weld]

Just got off the phone with my neighbor and he said he used 309 ss vs the Stoody build up. He did not use the carbide/vanadium stuff. Don't flame me for this, just passing on what worked for him.

I think the question of cost is the major factor here. Build up rod is only about half the hardness of actual hardfacing. Actual chromium carbide or vanadium carbide is a lot more money but can last up to 10 times longer than non hardfaced buckets. On a dragline you have know if the bucket is manganese and use the correct procedure and hardfacing rods.

For skid shoes on a plow you could go with straight lines or a herringbone bone steep V pattern with the point of the V at the front of the skid shoe. Doing half the V would allow you to put a shorter weld and help control warping. If you drew the pattern with soapstone you could put a bead and then do the next bead further away so it doesn't get too hot. Another thing that UTP used to have was called Abra-discs (sp) that were a hard oval shaped disc you welded on. It was like an oval donut and they came with special rods to weld them on the inside hole of the donut. .035 hardfacing wire is ridiculously expensive compared to .045 because it is harder to make and there's a lot more wire on the spool for the same weight.

 

[Ehanson]

I like Bob's picture of the box skid shoe. I used a big 1.5" bolt and cut two hard washers in half, welding the four halves around the bolt head in the same fashion as Bob's shoe. Used a 1.5 "nut drilled out so the bolt would slide in it, welded the nut to the back of the blade.
drilled a .25" hole in the top of the bolt for a big cotter pin, slid it in the nut, cotter pinned, done.
Between dirt, gravel, and pavement and several ploughs a year, I figure it will outlast the tractor, blade and me.