heard a noise and lost FEL and BH function

sightsear · Feb 12, 2006

was digging out a pine stump with my L35. Had RPM's low due to stabilizers being close to the "pit" (two stumps at once, they were about 18 inches apart), didn't want the machine to move due to BH tug. Relief valve activated frequently for this process. The big stump was positioned such that the boom would rest on it while addressing the area behind it, I figured no problem, I'll move when I have to. Don't know it this was part of the cause, hadn't done that before. Heard a noise behind me around the FEL control area, (that also in the area where the hydro pump lives a bit forward tho). Rattel sucking type noise, gears reluctently changing shape noise..not out of the question I guess. Both FEL and BH no longer worked (they worked great previous). Got the book out.

I've got the machine at auction about a month ago, and put about 50hrs on it. While initially checking things over and greasing, I saw the hydro fluid was over full, drained about a gallon out. That put in right on full. Checked it a couple of times since and still showed right on. And had about 30 plus hours of perfect operation since the drain. Checked when it failed and the level was right at the add mark. Replaced what I took out.

loosened the lines (while rinning at idle) on top of the pump to see if air may be in there. The first one I did I saw what looked like white paint chips come with the fluid. Not so with the second, just fluid. Obviously had pressure, both FEL and BH were resting on the ground.

My question, did I break my trusty steeds pump. Or could I still have air. The noise, was quickly followed by loss of both FEL and BH function. Power steering and trans seems fine.

Machine has about 1600hrs, about 50 of them are mine and loved every minute. Want more. And it's sitting sidways in my driveway with the BH dipped in a 5 or so foot pit (I can still get around it OK) But I'm worried the neighbor will tease me it stays there too long.

Jim

Dirthog · Feb 12, 2006

when you lossened the lines at the pump there should have been a lot of oil coming out even at idle believe that pump puts out around 25 gpm. also the flakes you say were most likley metal from the pump. you don't just get air in a system while they are working unless you have a leak on the suction side of pump

sightsear · Feb 12, 2006

grateful for the info. Have a FEL on my 9n and my experience is limited when it comes to hydro systems. Only have had to replace seals, and then it was a VERY basic process. And been lucky and tinkered a couple of issues the three point lift system has had.

This is different, and being I'm pretty much knowledge free for the details of troubleshooting for this system (looking forward to second grade here). Only dare to address the basics. Wishing for air or line issue, but it's sure beginning to look like I might get some pump experience here.

Heck, I got it to do stuff, I guess pump rebuilding/replacement is also...stuff to do. Can remove a stump, plow dirt AND educate...YAY, I have a multitasking piece of equipment. The thought I may have unknowingly caused "whatever" to fail, remains a concern.

Soundguy · Feb 14, 2006

Hmm.. auction.. .. paint chips.. While this may or may not be a source of your problem.. i frequently see damaged hyd systems from auction style paint jobs. That is.. someone balnket coated the machine prior to sale.. and also painted the hyd pistons. This causes 2 problems.. first.. it can damaged the seals/wipes/packing in the cyls.. and secondly.. the paint flakes can contaminate the hyd system. This can cause everything from filter plugging, to valve plugging. I've seen relief and control valves stuck due to paint. I've seen hydrostatic steering valves so plugged that it took our mechanic 'days' with a fine toothed pick and guitar wire to get the hydrostatic steering working. A lifted relief valve may have stayed lifted due to debri holding it open.. same with a control valve.. etc... I've seen pumps starved and cavitated till dead due to plugged suction filters, and some spools have restrictor orifices and check balls that will/can get plugged with paint. Our local hyds shop will all but refuse to work on hyd components that have paint contamination. Even after disassembly and cleaning, he doesn't like to run them on his test bench without adding an extra filter inline and fluid change after.. to catch any paint from circulating in his system... and he passes that extra cost on to the customer.. for the extra oil and filters..e tc...

Hope your problem isn't a spendy one /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Soundguy

Dutch445 · Feb 14, 2006

How many pumps does the L35 have? My info says
it has 2, while the L49 has 3.
If it has a seperate steering and implement pump,
you may be able to drive, and steer the tractor,
but that could explain the loss of the hydraulics to
your loader and hoe. You might want to look at a
screen at the sump, and see if you have some metal
hunks etc. If you do have 2 pumps, it would make
sense that one went bad.
As far as paint chips, maybe that was part of the problem,
was the machine freshly painted?
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

sightsear · Feb 15, 2006

Machine looked like it's seen some action, but cared for reasonably well, not gussied up, dirt, a rusty spot or little broke thing here and there, scuffs, grease, etc.. Yep, two pumps, one on the right side of the engine, for tranny and power steering. And one in front, behind a few nose parts and under the battery holder, for all other stuff and shaft driven from front of motor. Shaft coupler has female splines at the pump end, and the pump itself has a splined male shaft for it's drive gear. At this point it looks like I stripped some splines.

After looking at them again, the white chips (particals might be more accurate for the small size) are more firm than I would expect paint to be. After reading what a bit of paint can do (didn't know that, thanks for informing), it's comforting to now be leaning away from them, as being that.

Looks like about 500.00 + for a pump, and whatever ?, for the female splined coupler. It doesn't appear that just the splined pump drive gear is available. The pump itself seems fine. I'm guessing the splines on the pump end and coupler are designed to be the weak point in the setup, and protects the engine end of things, from this operator.

sightsear

Dirthog · Feb 15, 2006

make sure that the system is clean before you install a new pump or you will do it for nothing the hard flakes were most likely pump pieces as the shaft and splines are no weaker that the rest of the system

sightsear · Feb 19, 2006

Good point on making sure system is particle free. On speaking to the parts counter guy, he offered the 1600hrs (if accurate) on the machine should not be enough to result in enough wear to let the splines strip. The female portion was well stripped and almost smoothed out. The male drive splines from the pump were affected, the original square shape of the splines are beveled almost to a point. But appear to be viable for operation for a while, by just replacing the female $50.00 portion on the pump end of the drive shaft.

Your post has me curious as to "why" it shows the wear it does and is now stripped. Previously I attributed it to regular wear from being a hard working guy, to the point of spline failure.

Yep, splines apparently no weaker than the rest. The pump system has fiber sacrifical disks at drive shaft end connections. Rather nice design touch for a getting somehow stuck situation. I'm quite impressed with this machine's design and quality of material.

Have ordered the new female spline portion. And at this point, looks like obtaining only the splined male pump drive shaft is not possible. And I'll have to buy the whole $500.00 pump for a "like new system".

Am currently puttering to turn the splined union, into a keyed union, I think it should work fine (my current illusion). If not, would be buying a pump due to the worn male drive gear shaft anyway.