Firstly I appologize for my extreme ignorance of hydraulics. I am looking to add rear remotes to my 1700d. I am sure some of these questions have been asked before and once again I appologize. I was wondering what size high pressure hose I will want to runn from the 10 mm high pressure line in to my spool valve and will I want to run this same size line out of my spool valve back in to the 10 mm line. Also I must say thanks to the fine folks at Hoy for helping me through some pretty rudimentry questions I had for them. Great folks there. Any way one more point of question was braught up by a friend. Has any one had any issues with pressure or back flow between the three point flow valve and the the spool valve. i was told that since the high pressure flex hose exiting the spool valve is larger than the 10 mm line it runs back in to this may create a pressure problem or possibly back flow which may damage my pump. If this is the case would I use a check valve and if so where is the best placement for the check.
help plumbing reare remotes please ym1700
- Thread starter todda323
- Start date
- Views: 2055
also I forgot to mention that the main use for this project will be for a power angle blade. i am planning to use two double acting cylinders tying in the lines so that when one side extends the other one will retract etc. I want to incorporate the option for a hyd top link as well. Are there any return flow issues between the cylinders and the spool valve I need to be concerned with in these instnaces? As I undrstand (possibly correctly) I tie in to my HP steel line using 10mm comp fitting, route to my open center spool valve, back in to my HP line prior to the 3pt flow controll valve. From there just plug in to the appropriate ports on valve and run to the cylinder main inlet, crosing the secondary inlets so return flow causes the appropriate cylinder to retract as one extends. I may be way way off but this is how I have put it togeather in my head. Any input or ideas suggestions or critisism (constructive) are greatly apprecited. as far as back pressure I was aske to clarify in another forum. Basically my question is that when you are exiting your spool valve with 3/8 hose and running it in to a 10mm line you are essentially stuffing this greater volume of fluid in to a smaller space. will this damage anything or does the spool valve have an internal mechanism that will slow the flow enough to do this without damaging my pump,spool valve or 3pt flow controll valve? all help is greatly appreciated as I have run in to really really bad luck with my dealer and the only local hydro shop around here. I am pretty much out there on my own here
3RRL
Super Member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 6,931
- Tractor
- 55HP 4WD KAMA 554 and 4 x 4 Jinma 284
Hi todda, I'll give it a shot but will ask a bunch of questions too, since I'm not familiar with your tractor. I am by no means a hydraulic expert so take what I say with a grain of salt. That is my disclaimer.
When you say this,
I was wondering what size high pressure hose I will want to runn from the 10 mm high pressure line in to my spool valve and will I want to run this same size line out of my spool valve back in to the 10 mm line.
I presume you are going to cut your 10mm HP (high pressure) line and insert this new spool valve in between right? And the 10mm is OD, right? Your choice of 3/8" hose is a good one since they are (fairly) close in size, so IMHO, I think it should be OK.
As I undrstand (possibly correctly) I tie in to my HP steel line using 10mm comp fitting, route to my open center spool valve, back in to my HP line prior to the 3pt flow controll valve.
Now, what about the spool valve you are getting. Will it have a power beyond port in it? As I understand it, you will plumb the HP out from this new valve to your 3pt valve, right? You can use it without power beyond sleeve but it is always better to use one with power beyond to power a valve downstream. So when you get your new open center spool valve, be sure to get one with "power beyond" and the sleeve to use it. That is what I recommend.
In that case, take the HP output from power beyond on your new spool valve and connect it to your 3pt valve. The new spool valve will have another exit or "return to sump" that needs to go back to your reservoir. You can do that by adding a "T" to your current return to sump line and connecting the exit on the new spool valve to that. It is an extra step but a much better set up.
Basically my question is that when you are exiting your spool valve with 3/8 hose and running it in to a 10mm line you are essentially stuffing this greater volume of fluid in to a smaller space. will this damage anything or does the spool valve have an internal mechanism that will slow the flow enough to do this without damaging my pump,spool valve or 3pt flow controll valve?
Generally, this happens all the time when guys install restrictors into larger lines to slow the movement of the cylinders they are using. I know the restrictors controlling the cylinders only come into play when using those cylinders, so regular flow through the open center system is not always being restricted. Their are pressure relief valves in your spool valves for safety and to keep the system from dead heading. Nevertheless, it shouldn't hurt to step up or down in line size. As far as I know, this is an accepted way of doing it, so it should be OK for the pump and valves.
From there just plug in to the appropriate ports on valve and run to the cylinder main inlet, crosing the secondary inlets so return flow causes the appropriate cylinder to retract as one extends. I may be way way off but this is how I have put it togeather in my head.
I have never done this but it sounds like it should work. But you need to mount the cylinders correctly.
The cylinders have a lesser volume on the rod side than the other. So to do it successfully, you need to mount the cylinders so that the exiting fluid from cylinder enters the other in the same spot. In other words, if your cross over connection comes from the rod end on one cylinder, it needs to go into the rod end of the other cylinder.
Hopefully someone else will comment to verify.
When you say this,
I was wondering what size high pressure hose I will want to runn from the 10 mm high pressure line in to my spool valve and will I want to run this same size line out of my spool valve back in to the 10 mm line.
I presume you are going to cut your 10mm HP (high pressure) line and insert this new spool valve in between right? And the 10mm is OD, right? Your choice of 3/8" hose is a good one since they are (fairly) close in size, so IMHO, I think it should be OK.
As I undrstand (possibly correctly) I tie in to my HP steel line using 10mm comp fitting, route to my open center spool valve, back in to my HP line prior to the 3pt flow controll valve.
Now, what about the spool valve you are getting. Will it have a power beyond port in it? As I understand it, you will plumb the HP out from this new valve to your 3pt valve, right? You can use it without power beyond sleeve but it is always better to use one with power beyond to power a valve downstream. So when you get your new open center spool valve, be sure to get one with "power beyond" and the sleeve to use it. That is what I recommend.
In that case, take the HP output from power beyond on your new spool valve and connect it to your 3pt valve. The new spool valve will have another exit or "return to sump" that needs to go back to your reservoir. You can do that by adding a "T" to your current return to sump line and connecting the exit on the new spool valve to that. It is an extra step but a much better set up.
Basically my question is that when you are exiting your spool valve with 3/8 hose and running it in to a 10mm line you are essentially stuffing this greater volume of fluid in to a smaller space. will this damage anything or does the spool valve have an internal mechanism that will slow the flow enough to do this without damaging my pump,spool valve or 3pt flow controll valve?
Generally, this happens all the time when guys install restrictors into larger lines to slow the movement of the cylinders they are using. I know the restrictors controlling the cylinders only come into play when using those cylinders, so regular flow through the open center system is not always being restricted. Their are pressure relief valves in your spool valves for safety and to keep the system from dead heading. Nevertheless, it shouldn't hurt to step up or down in line size. As far as I know, this is an accepted way of doing it, so it should be OK for the pump and valves.
From there just plug in to the appropriate ports on valve and run to the cylinder main inlet, crosing the secondary inlets so return flow causes the appropriate cylinder to retract as one extends. I may be way way off but this is how I have put it togeather in my head.
I have never done this but it sounds like it should work. But you need to mount the cylinders correctly.
The cylinders have a lesser volume on the rod side than the other. So to do it successfully, you need to mount the cylinders so that the exiting fluid from cylinder enters the other in the same spot. In other words, if your cross over connection comes from the rod end on one cylinder, it needs to go into the rod end of the other cylinder.
Hopefully someone else will comment to verify.
I have a hydraulic angle on my JD 790. It was a Frontier kit made for the blade. It uses two single acting cylinders and I mounted a valve on the fender and used 3/8" hoses, 1/4" would probably have been enough. It works great. Don't see why you would need double acting cylinders.
I think the PB is definately an option. There are some plugs under my 3pt valve in my trans/hydro resiv. I just have to photo and ask the guys on the yanmar board if possible. This actually is a post I started over there but didn't get too many hits. I really appreciate yuo guys's help. Guess im beatin a dead horse but its mine and its the only horse i got haha. well in doing some more research i have found i need a double acting four way two spool valve with PB. As far as having double acting cylinders i think it will be nice to have a little extra push pull in both directions in case needed as opposed to single acting cylinders which I understand use gravity or a force other than hydraulic retract and hydraulic force to extend. I did have a question about getting the HP compression fitting. Firstly my dealer told me my HP line was 10 mm. Glad I checkeked because its outside diameter is 12mm when cleaned of paint not 10.I have read that there is a type of fitting i can use instead of braising or welding or flaring (nightmare flaring steel line) If my outside diameter of my HP line is 12mm do i need to order a 13 mm. The problem is I am not familiar with this type of fitting and i am going to have to order one with out understanding it therefore limiting my ability to decide what i will further need . I am familiar with flaring copper line, i stink at flaring steel. As well I am familiar with brazing. Not secure enough in my skill to weld high pressure line. I know I have 12 mm steel high pressure line. I know I will need a compression fitting metrick on the small end and 3/8 on the other. Other than that I'm still working out the fittings. I/m good on my cyclinder and valve now. thanks again for all the help guys
3RRL
Super Member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 6,931
- Tractor
- 55HP 4WD KAMA 554 and 4 x 4 Jinma 284
I have read that there is a type of fitting i can use instead of braising or welding or flaring (nightmare flaring steel line) If my outside diameter of my HP line is 12mm do i need to order a 13 mm.
You are asking about a compression fitting for it?
If you have a 12mm OD then you get a 12mm ID compression fitting for it. The sleeve is usually a little larger than 12mm. Is the fitting you describe an adaptor with a compression on one end and NPT on the other? That would be easy then to splice your new valve in between with NPT hose to your new valve.
I think the PB is definately an option. There are some plugs under my 3pt valve in my trans/hydro resiv. I just have to photo and ask the guys on the yanmar board if possible.
Yeah, anything that gets the return to sump line back into the reservoir. Take out one of those plugs to see where it goes. If it goes to your reservoir, you can probably use it.
You are asking about a compression fitting for it?
If you have a 12mm OD then you get a 12mm ID compression fitting for it. The sleeve is usually a little larger than 12mm. Is the fitting you describe an adaptor with a compression on one end and NPT on the other? That would be easy then to splice your new valve in between with NPT hose to your new valve.
I think the PB is definately an option. There are some plugs under my 3pt valve in my trans/hydro resiv. I just have to photo and ask the guys on the yanmar board if possible.
Yeah, anything that gets the return to sump line back into the reservoir. Take out one of those plugs to see where it goes. If it goes to your reservoir, you can probably use it.
Ductape
Elite Member
