Historical Fuel Economy Competitions

[3930dave]

I started out reading about the Studebaker Champion recently.

Old Car Gas Mileage - Top 1 Classic Car MPG | Hagerty Articles

That lead me to the Mobil competitions back when. The Times article goes into the details of how carefully the tests were monitored - strange generation back then - they believed that oversight by educated humans was more important that just believing whatever dreck came out of a computer.

Coast to Coast in the Pursuit of Economy - The New York Times

I've never been really impressed with modern cars in terms of highway mpg. Data like the above tends to agree.

Rgds, D.

 

[Garandman]

We have a Chevrolet Cruze Eco and two Cruze turbodiesels in our fleet. We've had individuals tanks [calculated from actual consumption] of 40mpg for the Eco and 50mpg for the TD's. Partial tank of 54.

Drove one of the TD's from Boston to Philadephia to Laurel, MD and back. All on Route I95 daytime traffic with no particular effort to economize and going 70+ with traffic at times. Averaged 48.7mpg over nearly 1,000 miles.

Both cars that pass all modern safety and emissions standards. That's significant because modern US spec cars are much heavier. My 1978 VW Rabbit (Golf) weighed 1,840 lbs. A new one is close to 3,000 lbs.

 

[3930dave]

I'm a diesel fan, so am with you there.

I should have been more specific.... I was thinking of the gasoline motors which dominate our markets. Comparing a low-cost car from 70 years ago with all its limitations (carbs, point ignition, old bearing and tire designs, etc...) to a modern one - all we've gained is 10 mpg highway - an improvement, yes, but I don't consider that stellar.

Unless you are spending your highway driving going up and down the Rockies, weight matters less in the steady state driving I'm thinking of. Increased weight definitely kills mpg in stopNgo city driving, for sure.

DI gas has been hit/miss, with some being significantly more costly to maintain than MPFI ancestors. I also don't buy that DI gas motors are as in-field long term emission clean as they are laboratory assessed to be.

As much as I like diesels, unfortunately they are not a low-cost purchase option in Can/USA - viewed in those terms, a TD's 50mpg vs. 30mpg from a low-cost car 70 years ago is a spendy way to gain mpg. I don't fault VW from a business standpoint here..... it was not easy to buy a stripped down TDI - they were just charging what the market would bear stacking their inventory with loaded models; they knew they could fairly easily move every unit. Speaking pre-scandal, of course.

An Elio would deliver gas #'s that I would be impressed with, but I fear that will never see volume production. Blue sky dreaming.... would love to see that platform with something like an 800cc turbo-diesel - breaking 100mpg wouldn't surprise me......

Rgds, D.

 

[MHarryE]

My second car was a 1970 Nova. At 75 mph freeway driving I would get about 14 mpg with dress ignition components, 12 after 8,000 miles. Three times yearly I needed to spend a Saturday changing plugs, points, condensor, with oil and filter 6 times yearly, that was a 307 V-8. It handled like a pig. Today my beater car is a 2008 BMW. Zero to 60 is 3 seconds faster than the Nova. Oil changes - once every 22,000 miles on average (4 changes in 8 years). Ignition all original. Fuel economy 30 to 32 mpg across that same Iowa Interstate. Plus the BMW is 4wd and, when I had it in Germany, I quickly discovered it easily reaches the 220 kph ( 132 mph) electronically limited top speed. But my gassed won't compare with the diesel, which is out of my price range. European rentals I've driven easily use less than 5.5 liters per 100 km (41 mpg) at speeds I wish I could drive in America. The good old days really sucked.

 

[3930dave]

My second car was a 1970 Nova. At 75 mph freeway driving I would get about 14 mpg with dress ignition components, 12 after 8,000 miles. Three times yearly I needed to spend a Saturday changing plugs, points, condensor, with oil and filter 6 times yearly, that was a 307 V-8. It handled like a pig. Today my beater car is a 2008 BMW. Zero to 60 is 3 seconds faster than the Nova. Oil changes - once every 22,000 miles on average (4 changes in 8 years). Ignition all original. Fuel economy 30 to 32 mpg across that same Iowa Interstate. Plus the BMW is 4wd and, when I had it in Germany, I quickly discovered it easily reaches the 220 kph ( 132 mph) electronically limited top speed. But my gassed won't compare with the diesel, which is out of my price range. European rentals I've driven easily use less than 5.5 liters per 100 km (41 mpg) at speeds I wish I could drive in America. The good old days really sucked.

Points and plugs (if accessible w/o dismantling the front end ) I didn't mind so much. Fixed a few carbs back when, I don't miss fettling them - it's one thing if you are messing around with a carb on a special piece of auxiliary equipment in your shop, another if it's your daily driver you need to get around with.

Maintenance has definitely improved, to the point many consumers now consider cars to be No-Maintenance items. I know a few people who've had "fun" taking original plugs out of cars with 200 or 300 k km on them. Specific output (hp/L) has also improved quite a bit in gas motors over the time-span discussed.

My carb'd 78 Chev (HEI by then) got about 20mpg US, but that was a straight 6.

I do appreciate the engineering advancements that have gone into the reduced maintenance we have today on gas motors, I just find that when I look at what the best fuel economy performance was (many) decades ago, we don't seem to have come all that far. Admittedly, my tech change vs. time span bias comes from working in electronic hardware.

A buddy of mine was in Germany about 2 years ago on business. I've posted the #'s on here somewhere; he was getting fantastic mileage driving a diesel C-Max. He wasn't testing the speed-limiter on it, just moving along with regular traffic (140 km/hr or so) - still, you'd need a small gas motorcycle to get the #'s he was hitting with that C-Max.

Rgds, D.

 

[oldballs]

Thanks D,

Interesting read. I agree, it doesn't seem to me that MPG's have increased all that dramatically. But less maintenance and increased durability are much better IMHO (not a mechanic or car enthusiast). But raising 4 kids and buying used cars in the 60s - 80s, I spent a lot of time with my rump bent over the front fenders or sliding under the frame.

Today I own a '99 Crown Vic (4.6 L) and a '99 F-250 Superduty. The CV just got 23.4 mph carrying 4 old ladies on a 300 mile trip. That ain't bad by my measure...55- to 75 mph was my cruising speed. Let's not talk about the 5.4 L gasser truck. I really enjoy the the long intervals for synthetic oil changes and the lack of routine plugs, wires, points etc etc etc. for both of them however.

BTW, in 1962 I bought that 1962 brand new Rambler American. ... our first new car. It had an AM radio, white walls, two tone color, and bucket reclining seats with seat belts in the front, a huge steering wheel and 15 inch wheels, a six cylinder engine. Can't find a record of its gas mileage (it hardly ever hit the hyway). The sticker price was $2633 delivered.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[3930dave]

You're welcome Mike. You raise some good points. Far enough back, you didn't take a car anywhere w/o a ride-along mechanic !

An aunt of mine had a Rambler, and I once had a ride in another one that a gearhead had put a diesel motor in. What I remember most about those cars (and noted again, in a '70 Maverick a friend just restored) was the interior space. We think of today's cab forward designs as space optimized, but those designers back when did a good job on the interiors - the Maverick has tons of room up front, and I remember lots of space in the Rambler front and back.

I've seen people go from mini-vans to Crown Vics - fuel on the CV is the same or better, but maintenance costs tend to be lower - at least for high mileage use.

Rgds, D.

 

[Jim Shooz]

We had 3 Mobilgas Economy runs in the 70s and I drove a Corolla in all 3. Best we ever got was 42 MPG. 4th out 12 in the small car section. Cars were supplied by the local assembler/manufacturer but the drivers were generally from motor racing/rallying/car trialing backgrounds. Was a lot of fun. back in the day everybody knew everybody else and you would help your competitor (as long as it didn't effect you) but 'when the flag drops the BS stops'

 

[Patches]

In 1967 I purchased a new Dodge Coronet, 375hp, 440ci, 3:20 to 1 gear ratio, weighing about 3600#. It consistently managed 12 mpg and 5-600 miles per quart of oil (Chrysler said it was normal oil consumption). Fast forward to my 2007 Tundra pickup 344ci(5.7L),381hp, 4:30 to 1 gear ratio, weighing north of 6500#. It consistently gets 18mpg highway and have never added oil between 7,500 mile oil changes; a considerable improvement IMHO. Oh, and the truck is quicker

 

[3930dave]

We had 3 Mobilgas Economy runs in the 70s and I drove a Corolla in all 3. Best we ever got was 42 MPG. 4th out 12 in the small car section. Cars were supplied by the local assembler/manufacturer but the drivers were generally from motor racing/rallying/car trialing backgrounds. Was a lot of fun. back in the day everybody knew everybody else and you would help your competitor (as long as it didn't effect you) but 'when the flag drops the BS stops'

That's where I was coming from - modern cars don't do much better than that on the highway. Increased weight doesn't factor as much for flatland driving or headwinds - any modern gas powered heavy vehicle will take a big hit in constant city driving.

A big part of those campaigns was public education...... definitely not a focus today.

Rgds, D.