I bought the HH 180 package on sale at TSC a couple of years ago. Was a great deal, I want to say it was under $500. Included the welder, cart, small bottle of gas, a couple of spools of wire, auto darkening helmet, chipping hammer, wire brush, gloves, etc. Overall, I've been pretty pleased with the 180. Of course the Tim "the toolman" in me would love to have a 210 or 250 sized machine, but I can't justify spending over twice as much. I know there has been a lot of discussion both here and on other boards about whether or not the Hobart is as good as a Miller or Lincoln. I can't totally ascess that as I've never had a Miller or Lincoln, but I can tell you that the gun on my HH 180 says Miller on it, so that should be the same. Also, I can tell you that the carry handle on top of the HH 180 is a joke as that thing weighs a ton. It would take on heck of a man to lug that thing around with one arm like it was a suitcase! I can't imagine another brand could weigh much more than a Hobart. I certainly don't think I got hurt with what I spent on it.