Home Elect. Xfer switch?

[RET]

I jsut ordered a Yamaha YG6600DE generator. Next task is exploring cost and method of installing an elect. xfer switch on the house. The transfer switches I've researched on the web typically have a number of individual breakers thru which the generator power is fed. How does this work? If I place this xfer panel on the back of the house, would wiring from the individual xfer switch breakers have to be run to individual pre-chosen circuits in the house? If so, how do you prevent backfeeding the entire house? Isn't there a simpler/cheaper legal xfer switch? Why not have a xfer switch for the main power cominging in - choose either grid or the generator (just like the xfer switch above), but without the breakers...when transferred, the generator would feed the ENTIRE house. But, before swapping to the generator, I would go to the house main breaker panel and switch off all the circuits I don't want powered up (elec. water heater, central AC, elec. dryer, etc). The generator puts out 120 or 240V (or is that 115/220 or 110/215...). It's rated at 6600 watts...lots of surge capacity. Should easily run refrig,freezer, 1/2 hp sewer sump pump, and misc. lights and 10kBTU window AC if during summer.
I'm afraid adding this xfer switch may cost me a small fortune with the high cost of electrician labor.
Any ideas? Anybody up to giving me some training on this?
I'm trying to avoid running extension cords all over the house during an elect. outage.
thanks
RET

 

[tc35dforme]

RET,

Don't tell anyone, but I backfeed my entire panel through a 50 amp breaker and welding type outlet out by the generator. The important points....

1. It is ABSOLUTLEY necessary to shut-off the main breaker in the panel to prevent power from reaching that unknowing line worker down the street.
2. You need to use you head when sequencing loads to prevent excessive draw on the generator.

Now the best option would use an automatic transfer switch. In effect this is a big relay that will trip to open the main and close to the generator when the power fails. Your looking at BIG bucks !!!

A manual transfer switch is chaeper, but requires your attention.

The six or twelve circuit panels you see at the home center ( Generac ) basically supplement your existing panel. You need to select which circuits will be on generator power and when you start the generator, you manually flip the switches. In effect the wiring that would normally go from the breaker to the load goes through the switches on this new panel. They run a few hundred bucks and are good except for the limited circuits you have available.

here's a link to a manual transfer switch web page

 

[gerard]

I do it the way Tc35 does also. Didn't want to spend $300+ on a transfer switch + electricians cost and still only be able to select certain circuits. As long as you know what you're doing it can be done safely this way. I use ran a dedicated 30 amp 220 volt line from the garage where I keep my generator. Just switch main breaker off, generator breaker on, start generator and I feed the whole panel. Then just to be safe I turn the breakers off for my electric range and dryer.

 

[Mike_Dumond]

<font color="red"> Experience is something you get right after you need it! </font>

Seems like someone is looking for an experience. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif While your setup might work every time for you, the possibility of inadvertently sending the power down the line is very real and too great, (IMHO), to chance it. Seen it done up here, and the lineman in the back of the ambulance wasn't too happy when he woke up. The good news is that he woke up. I vote transfer switch.

 

[RET]

Thanks for the explanations and advice. Appears I understood better than I thought I did.
Cheapest route seems to be to find a manual xfer switch rated for full house load (200A?) on the grid side and large enough on gen. side to cover it rating. Would like to find one without the individual breaker circuits....would want to feed entire house from generator...would just shut off high amp circuits in house breaker box before starting gen. This seems very simple and would only take a couple hours of electrician time. $300 for xfer switch plus $300 for misc. parts and labor? I bet there's something in the codes against this though. Since I may not be in this house forever, gotta be careful to at least stay close to code requirements.
RET

 

[gerard]

Not looking for an "experience", just have enough confidence in my abilities and respect for electricity to know I won't be backfeeding the line. Before Y2k and the popularity of transfer switches I'd imagine most people did it the way I do. I agree that the safest way is with a transfer switch OR a lockout device which someone on this board made that made it impossible for both the main AND the generator circuit to be on at the same time, that was a nice compromise. I admit my way COULD backfeed the line if I screw up but I consider it an acceptable risk. (I have guns too and I have enough confidence in my abilities to know I shouldn't point it at a body part and pull the trigger while loaded) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Mike_Dumond]

I hope I don't sound like I'm picking on anybody, just relating my experiences up here. What I neglected to mention, was that the offending party was an electrician. Just one of those things that shouldn't happen, but do.

 

[wdn]

Let me know how you like the YG6600DE generator. I have my house wired with a 10 circuit transfer switch, that is 30 amps (7,200 watts).

You can get a transfer switch pretty reasonably priced on eBay if you look. A lot of them have a watt meter right on it to help you with load balancing (the one I had installed lacks that feature). It is real convenient with the gen tran swich, it is 3 positions (line/off/gen). When the power goes off you plug in the generator and fire it up. Then, one by one, you switch the circuits from line to gen. To let the generator get used to the load. If the power comes back on you will know it because circuits that are not on the generator will light up again. At that point, you just go to the basement and switch the 10 circuits on the generator from gen back to line. That's it. Then shut off the generator and put it away.

Now, with the YG6600DE you are not going to have that problem because it is surge rated at 18,000 watts for 3 seconds, so you could flip all 10 switches in the same instant and the generator could 'take it'.

By the way mine is right next to the main ciruit breaker, and just run the cable out the window. I just bought on eBay (where else) another 40' extension cable with L14R30 plugs so I can extend the generator to the other side of the house.

Here is what I have on mine: well pump, 2 furnaces, basement lights and 2nd refrigerator, kitchen lights and refrigerator, garage lights and door openers on same circuit, upstairs hallway and bedroom lights, great room so we can sit and watch TV. Maybe left one out but that is the 10. What is not on the list are the electric stove & range (we'll use a microwave). Basically you want it so you can be warm, keep food cold, cook after a fashion, have water, get in and out of house, and a room for TV. You will find out that you still want to conserve power so the gas will last as long as possible. The biggest load on mine will be the well pump but you don't run that all the time. You could just turn off the thermostat while its time to take a shower, for instance.

Since you know how dangerous it is without using a transfer switch I'm not going to lecture you. But you can pick up a new one on ebay for around $100 not $300 that might make the difference for you. And besides just the safety issue alone there is the "insurance issue" and the "electrical code issue".

The other thing is, the 10 circuits add up to 7,200 watts and your generator is rated 6,000 watts, 6,600 max. But it won't be a problem those 10 circuits are less likely to be on at the same time. But for the whole house setup you suggested, a lot more likely that you could turn on enough appliances to exceed the capacity of your Yamaha. Just something to keep in mind. An electrician installed mine right next to the breaker box so it is easy to wire up, then to put the generator anywhere you please it hooks up to these mother of extension cords about 1" in diameter. So, you install the transfer switch right next to your existing circuit breakers, not way over there where you are going to plug in the generator.


I am seriously looking at the same generator, also looking at the EF5200DE. I have seen in the usenet groups accounts of people running up more than 4,000 hours on these generators and only changing the gas and oil and washing the filter element. Also seen 4 weeks continuous operation on them. So you picked a mighty excellent generator.

I just bought the portable EF100iS model for my tractor 27 pound inverter model super efficient and very quiet, goes 12 hours on 2/3 of a gallon of gas.