Horse Power required

[nckennedy]

We have a small farm with a few beefers and am thinking of getting a NH 477 haybine. Would the JD 970 handle it ok? Its about a 30 HP tractor.
Thanks,
nckennedy

 

[Ed of all trades]

Depends on the hay and hills. Heavy hay and or hills I would guess prob. no light hay and flat possable.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

Depends on the hay and hills. Heavy hay and or hills I would guess prob. no light hay and flat possable.

I'm in agreement that tractor is on the small side. These kinds of mower conditioners are sensitive to ground speed especially with a heavy crop. The reel should only help move the cut crop back to the conditioner rollers. If ground speed is on the slow side and the reel is pulling the crop into the MC, power requirements goes WAY up. If I didn't have my ground speed right the additional load placed on the MC due to the reel trying to pull in the crop, it put a strain on my MF 165. For the fields I was typ cutting, the yield was on the order of 4T/A.

You've not mentioned what kind of baler you're thinking about and for a sq baler, for anything other than a light field, your JD is way too small. Agin with my tractor and a heavy field, it wasn't hard to overload the tractor. (50+ HP)

 

[nckennedy]

Thanks so much guys. Really appreciate. I have a nice JD 5425 about 65 HP at the PTO which I think would be nice for bailing, probably larger round bails, but was woundering if I could pull the smaller 7 ft conditioner with a smaller tractor I am thinking of buying for the garden and light field work
Thanks for you help.
nckennedy

 

[zzvyb6]

It actually takes very little hp to run that mower. You can actually run a 479 (9') too. I have the 9 footer and used to run it with a 22 hp Yanmar very easily. You may need some front weights to help you steer, though. I run ine 479 with a 1070, which is the same tractor with a 4 cyl 35 hp motor. I can run it in high gear if the ground is smooth. I run a NH 1012 stackwagon with this machine, too. Now THAT"S fun !

 

[nckennedy]

Ok thanks so much. The 970 with 30 HP shoulld do ok.
Thanks,
nckennedy

 

[D7E]

All depends on the crop . In heavy first cut our 12 foot can make 90hp labour .

 

[nckennedy]

Wow, really. Thats a lot of tractor to cut grass.
Thanks

 

[rankrank1]

I am thinking your 970 just might handle that 7' haybine in most conditions as long as we are not talking super-fertilized type yields of drastic height.

Glad ZZVYB6 already chimed in. The JD 970 and even more so the JD 1070 were large and heavy as far as compact tractors go. Actually the 1070 is real close to be being a full fledged utility tractor so that bodes well for yah.

My Hesston 1120 mower conditioner (equivalent to a 9' haybine) manual calls for 30 hp minimum per factory manual specs. That said it is heavy with an insane amount of tongue weight. I pull it with either a JD model A tractor 33 hp or a Farmall h at 26 hp. I can see the drawbar flex when I hitch up on either tractor. If I had a 7' model I would be willing to try it on my little Kubota L285 which I use to bale hay with (my Kubota is slightly bigger than a JD 870 but slightly small than your JD 970). Another thing to remember is the side draft of the haybine since you are pulling it from the side instead of the center of it can be surprising. That said I would not be too afraid of a 7' on flat ground in average yielding hay.

 

[Verticaltrx]

If you have a JD 5425 by all means use that instead. Based on hp requirements alone your 970 might pull a small mower conditioner but it will be a miserable experience compared to the bigger utility tractor. Granted a 477 NH isn't quite as big, but I tried to just move our 1219 Deere mower-condtioner out of the shed with my Ford NAA and it bent the drawbar it had so much tongue weight. To further the problem to actually mow with one you need to use either an equal angle hitch (JD) or have the drawbar pulled all the way out to proper PTO length specs (NH). I think between the tongue weight, overall weight, and marginal hp available it'd be a good way to tear up a nice compact tractor. You'll get a lot more hay mowed per hour with the 5425.

 

[rankrank1]

If you have a JD 5425 by all means use that instead. Based on hp requirements alone your 970 might pull a small mower conditioner but it will be a miserable experience compared to the bigger utility tractor. Granted a 477 NH isn't quite as big, but I tried to just move our 1219 Deere mower-condtioner out of the shed with my Ford NAA and it bent the drawbar it had so much tongue weight. To further the problem to actually mow with one you need to use either an equal angle hitch (JD) or have the drawbar pulled all the way out to proper PTO length specs (NH). I think between the tongue weight, overall weight, and marginal hp available it'd be a good way to tear up a nice compact tractor. You'll get a lot more hay mowed per hour with the 5425.

Nice catch on the JD5425 in OP signature that would easily be the best one to use.

Sorry to here about the drawbar on your NAA. I do know that I did some beefing up on my ole 1951 Farmall h before I hitched it to my Hesston 1120 mower conditioner (my Hesston is even heavier than the NH or JD sickle cutting crimpers from that era). My farmall hitch was well worn and needed some repairs anyway, but I had already seen how much the 1950 JD model A drawbar which is heavey duty drawbar and in otherwise good shape flexed so I was well prepared with my repair and beefing up mods on the Farmall h. I also have an old Jubilee (same as NAA) that needs lots of major work. I now know that I will need to beef that up as well if I ever decide to try it. I was surprised though at how well my ole well worn out Farmall h at 26 PTO hp handled the mower conditioner. Actually, the main thing stopping me from trying it on my little Kubota is the cheasey lightweight drawbar system on it and I have simply been too busy/lazy to improve it. If I had a 7' instead of a 9' then I probably would have already tried it.

For the record the drawbar on the tractor needs to be set so the end of the tractor PTO shaft is 14" to the center of the drawbar hitch pin. This is per SAE standards to prevent PTO joints from binding when turning.

 

[nckennedy]

So the draw bar should extend 14" beyound the PTO shaft?
Never realized that. Probably is standard in most tractors.
nckennedy

 

[Verticaltrx]

Sorry to here about the drawbar on your NAA. .

It was easily straightened, not much to them anyways. What really put the strain on it was the extra leverage of the equal angle hitch needed to hook up the JD mo-co's. It extends the pivot point back another 8" or so. When setup right it sure does cut a beautiful square corner though...

So the draw bar should extend 14" beyound the PTO shaft?
Never realized that. Probably is standard in most tractors.
nckennedy

Yup, 14" IIRC. Not a standard setting on most compact tractors. Some of them might have a setting that far out, but will have a greatly diminished tongue weight rating at that position.

 

[rankrank1]

So the draw bar should extend 14" beyound the PTO shaft?
Never realized that. Probably is standard in most tractors.
nckennedy

Most utility sized tractors and of course bigger tractors that have real drawbars can almost always accommodate that setting. Small compact tractor drawbars are usually kinda lightweight and may not be able to (as well as old Ford 9n, 2n, 8n etc that did not have real drawbars but relied on 3pt arms for drawbar). That's why you see aftermarket drawbar kits for them old Fords.

Regardless it is the implemement in tow that requires the setting to protect is PTO joints. It will always be outlined in the user manual for that implement. So if you want to use your compact then beefing up the lightweight drawbar is sometimes required (I need to do this myself).

 

[rankrank1]

... What really put the strain on it was the extra leverage of the equal angle hitch needed to hook up the JD mo-co's. It extends the pivot point back another 8" or so. When setup right it sure does cut a beautiful square corner though....

Never heard of an equal angle hitch for moco's or haybines required for any brand. Not sure why JD would see it as a good idea to need it where no other manufacturers did. Guess I will have to do some research reading to see what their logic was....

As for cutting square corners: I have zero problems accomplishing that with my moco and I do not even use tractor brakes. Easy to do really and essential in my case as I do not use a hydraulic cylinder on my moco. I use manual ratchet since my old antique tractors lack decent hydraulics. Go round and round towards the center just as outlined in old sickle mower manuals. Lower the manual ratchet once when I enter the field and raise it once when I exit the field and that's it. Cutting square corners is essential for this mowing method.

 

[Grateful11]

It actually takes very little hp to run that mower. You can actually run a 479 (9') too. I have the 9 footer and used to run it with a 22 hp Yanmar very easily. You may need some front weights to help you steer, though. I run ine 479 with a 1070, which is the same tractor with a 4 cyl 35 hp motor. I can run it in high gear if the ground is smooth. I run a NH 1012 stackwagon with this machine, too. Now THAT"S fun !

You're not mowing 3-5' high Oats for hay are you? My wife pulls her 478 with a 106 PTO hp tractor and you put it in Oats or Soybean and Millet and she knows it's back there. If someone isn't mowing anything but 1' fescue they might get by with a 970.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Never heard of an equal angle hitch for moco's or haybines required for any brand. Not sure why JD would see it as a good idea to need it where no other manufacturers did. Guess I will have to do some research reading to see what their logic was....

Deere used them on all the previous mo-cos and still uses them on the square balers. Just gives the hitch a little extra 'swing' to really turn tight. Also it allows for a 90* turn with no driveline chatter. Both our 1219 moco and 337 square baler take the same hitch:

 

[rankrank1]

Deere used them on all the previous mo-cos and still uses them on the square balers. Just gives the hitch a little extra 'swing' to really turn tight. Also it allows for a 90* turn with no driveline chatter. Both our 1219 moco and 337 square baler take the same hitch:

View attachment 297325

Thanks for posting some follow-up pics. I did some reading as well on my own last night. I now see what it is and what it does, just odd that Deere is the only one that needs it on their balers and moco's. Maybe it was a band aide for helping with less than stellar designs on their part.

All I know is I can put a narrow front tractor on my Hesston 1120 and turn it as sharp as I want to and the driveline will never chatter. I have no problems doing 90 degree turns. FWIW a NF will turn in place without brakes like a zero turn mower can. Maybe Hesston simply made their tongue longer from the start...I do not know. I do the Hesston does indeed have an immense amount of tongue weight.

 

[zzvyb6]

You're not mowing 3-5' high Oats for hay are you? My wife pulls her 478 with a 106 PTO hp tractor and you put it in Oats or Soybean and Millet and she knows it's back there. If someone isn't mowing anything but 1' fescue they might get by with a 970.

Yeah, I borrowed an International 1066 2WD once to run my mower (the NH 479). It may have been 100+ hp in its day, but it could hardly get out of its way. Maybe it was that heavy canopy). The gears/wheel size for a reasonable ground speed were all wrong for mowing in my flat fields. Yes, you can outrun a sicklebar mower with too fast of a ground speed. And many owners don't have the reel speed set properly, which I suppose could choke the rolls. That can turn a haybine into a hay-bind. Why are we mowing oats and soybeans with a haybine ? Isn't that what they make combines for ?

Next summer I'll make some videos of my haying process on flat and hilly ground. You'll never hear the motor touch the governor, guvna'. Same for the baler.

 

[Tx Jim]

Never heard of an equal angle hitch for moco's or haybines required for any brand. Not sure why JD would see it as a good idea to need it where no other manufacturers did. Guess I will have to do some research reading to se.

JD's patented Equal Angle hitch was designed to make the pivot point of drawn implements exactly 1/2 between end of tractor pto shaft and the drive line carrier brg so there would be ZERO vibration in u-joints when making sharp turns. I never really understood why the implement tongue couldn't have been shortened enough to accomplish this but there must have been a reason as it was never done.